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(2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

theguardian.com

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Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#21

Post by toomuchtodo »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #14
api wrote: post #2

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism. This system has many downsides and generates many negative externalities and these are clearly…

> Maybe state corporatist capitalism destroys people and places. Try that. Hierarchies destroy people and places. The alternative is lack of a hierarchy, which is anarchy. Which are you more comfortable with, typing on your $1000 phone’s keyboard?

Humans will always form hierarchies, but it is possible to have more equitable hierarchies where I’m still not beaten to death for my iPhone.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#22

Post by api »

andrenth wrote: post #7
api wrote: post #2

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism. This system has many downsides and generates many negative externalities and these are clearly…

We can unquestionably say that communism has destroyed people and places.

We can also unquestionably say that communism is not the only alternative. For the record I am not an authoritarian communist and I don't think it's a good alternative.

I was very specific. I said "state corporatist capitalism" because there are even capitalist alternatives to that such as voluntarist libertarian capitalism and communitarian/co-op oriented capitalism. Our system is one of state-backed corporate capitalism backed by a centrally managed financial system and closely tied to defense and intelligence agencies. It was accurately termed the "military-industrial complex" by Dwight Eisenhower, a communist... err... wait... Eisenhower was a conservative Christian and a Republican.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU

Your comment is exactly what I mean. We can't discuss alternatives because there seems to have been some campaign to gerrymander the language and discourse such that any questioning of the official system instantly implies that you're a Leninist or alternately a Hitlerist.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#23

Post by gmiller123456 »

TL;DR; By "destroys people" he means "destroys their relationship with nature" and causes a sedentary lifestyle which leads to "industrial-scale afflictions of cancer, mental illness, obesity, heart disease, auto-immune disorders and food intolerances".

He should probably use technology to look up the actual causes of some of those. As well as observe the fact that lots of people are not sedentary despite their heavy use of technology.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#24

Post by Analemma_ »

api wrote: post #2

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism. This system has many downsides and generates many negative externalities and these are clearly…

> it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism

I don't think this is true: Millenials and Gen-Z are increasingly supportive of socialism and sometimes outright communism. The party machinery of the traditional left has been resisting this effort, as you say, but that wall is crumbling and will not last forever; e.g. see the improbable successes of Corbyn, Sanders, etc.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#25

Post by IanDrake »

api wrote: post #2

I have a new hypothesis I'm terming "sublimation of criticism." This is likely not original since this isn't my field, but here goes. The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative to state corporatist capitalism. This system has many downsides and generates many negative externalities and these are clearly…

>The campaign to exterminate any alternative political discourse in the West has been so successful that it's now very hard to even talk about any alternative

I’ve seen no evidence of that and with the severity of your claim should you should include a source or two.

Perhaps you’re confusing people disagreeing with your view with people attempting to silence you. Those are two very different things.

Recall the Occupy Wall Street protest where they camped out in downtown NYC for a month? They broke all sorts of laws but were allowed to stay. That doesn’t sound like “extermination”.

What I do see is violence from communist and anarchists against speech that they deem fascists, but are really just moderate voices. I can provide video links if you need, but it’s common knowledge at this point.

We still live in a democracy and so long as we do, you’re going to have to live with consensus, which doesn’t see things your way.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#26

Post by ShabbosGoy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe state corporatist capitalism destroys people and places. Try that. Hierarchies destroy people and places. The alternative is lack of a hierarchy, which is anarchy. Which are you more comfortable with, typing on your $1000 phone’s keyboard?

Humans will always form hierarchies, but it is possible to have more equitable hierarchies where I’m still not beaten to death for my iPhone.

What does “equitable hierarchy” mean? Equality of outcome? No thanks. Equality of opportunity? Fine, that’s what we have today.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#28

Post by Rainymood »

>Technology destroys people. We’re already cyborgs (pacemakers, hearing aids) of a sort, and are well on our way to the type of Big Brother dystopia of the techno-utopians

This one cuts quite close to the bone and I find this comment quite shortsighted and in poor taste.

My mother's life was saved by some extremely swift handling by medical professionals and (here it comes) technology. Where I'm from, if someone has a heart attack everyone in the vicinity who is trained gets a text message with the location and/or situation.

By sheer luck one of these people was in the neighbourhood and got a text message. By another stupidly lucky coincidence this woman had a defibrillator at home, which was nearby. She ran to her home, got the machine, and ran to our home and tried to restore my mother's heartbeat.

I don't know the details but my mother was saved by technology that day and she's been living roughly 10 years now with a little machine next to her heart. Every time her heart beats in an irregular fashion the machine gives a little zap (which hurts, a lot) and restores the beat. Luckily, this happens rarely, but still.

I'm not sure where I am going with this rant, but someone very dear to me was saved by technology, and i'd take the cyborg life over being dead.

Re: (2016) Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it

#29

Post by beauzero »

incadenza wrote: post #11

Why stop there? I don’t think Native Americans lived in log cabins. Antibiotics and modern medicine should undoubtedly be cast to the trash heap as well. I can’t help but feel like simply limiting screen time is the solution here...

...and I think we will start seeing that happen. I relate this to the Pamphlet wars when printing became cheap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphlet_wars

History repeats itself...well it's at least similar.

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