Live data from Hacker News

Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

theguardian.com

401–410 of 569 posts

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#401
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this case one of the Thai divers died from running out of oxygen... but 12 - 1 is still a win if you want to reduce it to arithmetic.

Except with the money spent they could have saved 50000 kids from dying from easily preventable diarrheal diseases with inexpensive vaccines.

It's not just the 12 kids. With the money spent Thailand is paying for a belief in the minds of its people: that the government would do the same for their kid.

I'd argue that this kind of belief is extremely valuable for a country's economics as a whole. In order for the populace to be economically productive (and save 50000 kids from dying of diarrheal diseas) you need to create a safe, reliable, and predictable environment. Governments insuring against events like kids getting lost in caves is the way that they get that.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#402
post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

What a great book, just finished listening to it. Afterwards I heard a lot of people thought it had a pro military/war bent; I don't think they read the book

Ok well quite a few hundred reviewers have read the book and consider it virulently militaristic, and some go further considering it jingoistic, and fascist. I don't know enough about Heinlein, but I kinda rather doubt he was advocating fascism. But it would not surprise me if he thought civilian control of the military was backwards, because I've had this conversation with members of the military. And some of them have overtly expressed people who have not picked up a weapon and used it to defend the country (I guess by shooting and killing, but perhaps merely by taking the risk to their own life) should not have a right to vote. And that is directly expressed in Starship Troopers as a matter of public policy. If you don't serve, you aren't a citizen, you cannot vote, and you cannot be a member of the government.

This may not have been what Heinlein intended to convey. But I tend not to find an author's advocacy relevant when reading fiction. I see the author as giving me rope to hang myself if I choose, rather than considering that they advocate anything at all. As I read it, militarism so permeated that society that the only possible contrarian point of view would come from the reader. And I thought that was the whole point of the book. It doesn't matter whether that's Heinlein's intent.

If it's true Heinlein just didn't convey the vast majority of Federal Service was non-military, and yet all we have to go on is the exclusively militaristic bent as written, that deficiency might make the book all the better just to have the ensuing ideological battles and discussions that resulted. And this book generated quite a lot of them at the time, and I see it as overwhelmingly beneficial.

A likely metaphor to the non-citizens of Starship Troopers are those who of their own volition do not enter into military service, do not vote, do not participate in government - exist in large numbers in the U.S. Most Americans now do not vote, they're simply along for the ride, and in effect aren't citizens in any meaningful way (other than perhaps they can't be deported - but in Starship Troopers it was a world government so there's no concept of deportation anyway).

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#403
post #6

Awesome! I love how the global diving community came together to rescue them, it's unfortunate that Petty Officer Saman Gunan died after doing a run of oxygen tanks to the caves though. I even liked how Musk came out of left field "grab that tube, we're making a rescue pod!" and then hopped on a plane with it when it was tested and ready. While it didn't really matter I like that sort of thinking outside of the box a…

Musk had no business being involved. Really, 'inventing' a MVP prototype of a submarine which he 'tested' in a swimming pool and then intended to test for real on live children, when an existing rescue effort underway was working? This was egoism at its finest, taking public credit for 'helping' with a rescue he wasn't invited or asked to help with. And the media ate it up hook, line and sinker.

I found this especially disturbing:

The office of Thailand’s prime minister has thanked the tech entrepreneur Elon Musk for his offers of help. Officials praised his mini-submarine but said it was not needed. Musk praised the "outstanding rescue team" but questioned the expertise of the official who turned down his submarine.

He inserts himself into the event (but contributed nothing), requiring the Prime Minister to kiss his ass (again, when he contributed nothing), then criticizes the people who saved the kids for not using his idea.

I know talking about voting is generally forbidden, but there is no reason for the parent to be flagged. It's not my favorite post ever on HN, but criticizing Musk isn't a violation of HN rules. Several other posts that criticizes him are also flagged (though some of them are pretty useless comments).

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree about current events. The Merrick Garland wikipedia page was a mess immediately after he was nominated, and I've just checked and the word "unprecedented" appears 7 times, in spite of the fact that it is by-no-means unprecedented for the senate to not consider a nomination [1]. There are a lot of partisan editors that wish to astroturf for their own political convictions, and because Wikipedia art…

In the time it took you to write out this comment you could have edited the Merrick Garland Wikipedia page to your satisfaction.

If you want changes to stick to a highly visited page like Merrick Garland then you need to either:

1. Craft an essay on the Talk page explaining why your modifications are well sourced and should not be changed

2. Camp the page for modifications

Both of which require much more time than it took to write OP's comment above.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#405
post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically buying stuff made in poor countries. This (more than literally anything else) has made a staggering improvement in the lives of hundreds of millions of people over the last few decades.

That's a big claim, do you have any further reading I could look at about this? That said, I wouldn't call purchasing cheap clothes "promoting capitalism". I'm still interested in user merpnderp's answer.

It is a big claim.

It's probably the biggest, most important claim of the millennium. And it is really, really good for hundreds of millions (maybe billions).

These two are pretty good start points. [1] [2]

In short, globalization converted hundreds of millions of would-be Chinese farmers into middle class urbanites in about one generation.

It is the most massive improvement of quality of life in world history. It is staggering to consider how much life has improved for so many people in such a short amount of time.

This is basically step one of "how do we save the world". First get everyone to a baseline standard of living, then instill ideas of sustainability and environmentalism, then try to boost everyone to a more than bearable standard of living sustainably.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-sto...

[2] https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/how-has-globalization...

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#406
post #213

"If a man gets lost in the mountains, hundreds will search and often two or three searchers are killed. But the next time somebody gets lost, just as many volunteers turn out. Poor arithmetic, but very human. It runs through all our folklore, all human religions, all our literature—a racial conviction that when one human needs rescue, others should not count the price. Weakness? It might be the unique strength that w…

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

A ridiculous amount of people, institutions, resources. There's just no media drama. The effort is there, although not large enough imo.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#407
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this case one of the Thai divers died from running out of oxygen... but 12 - 1 is still a win if you want to reduce it to arithmetic.

Except with the money spent they could have saved 50000 kids from dying from easily preventable diarrheal diseases with inexpensive vaccines.

That's a false equivalency. Those two choices aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#408
post #364

I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.

What does it mean to "promote capitalism"?

Drinking the good wine, living in a nice house, buying tiny giraffes, posting my favorite stuff on instagram.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#409

You really have to love Wikipedia. It's barely a week old and you already have a page with so many references and detailed information. Thank you, all the anonymous contributors.

> barely a week old

Heck, I remember the day the news broke, I thought "Wow, so many news articles on this... let me just head to Wikipedia and see the consensus.

The news had broken just hours beforehand, and already Wikipedia had all the info and a creative-commons graphic of a map of the cave.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#410
post #390
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to "promote capitalism"?

Argue against the extremely socialist mainstream thinking in the bubbles I operate in.

It may be difficult. Socialism is known to cause brain damage.
Post reply on HN