Earlier quoted context omitted.
Look at the noncapitalistic countries that industrialized and compare outcomes.
Russia made gigantic leaps from 1917 to 1956. They went from absolute backwards shithole to contending world power in 39 years (even less considering ww2 was over 10 years before that).
Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
371–380 of 569 posts
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#372Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have a source for that number? It seems incredibly low.
It is an interview in Thai with the guy who was sponsoring the water pumps.
So it was $3M paid for by a rich guy? Was he going to donate the money to charity if he didn't spend it on this?
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Musk had no business being involved. Really, 'inventing' a MVP prototype of a submarine which he 'tested' in a swimming pool and then intended to test for real on live children, when an existing rescue effort underway was working? This was egoism at its finest, taking public credit for 'helping' with a rescue he wasn't invited or asked to help with. And the media ate it up hook, line and sinker.
The only part I think was weird was him brainstorming on twitter. I know there is a huge anti-Musk sentiment lately. Whatever you think of the guy, I think it's commendable that he used what resources he had to attempt to help. People can blast him all they want for his 'egoism', but sitting behind the keyboard mocking him is even less helpful than what you accuse him of doing.
People blast McDonalds for putting phrases about tragic situations on their signs. People criticize them for being opportunistic and capitalizing on a tragedy. So, how is this different? Because he happens to be able to build a "submersible" for kids, he should get a pass? Why can't McDonalds say, "Our thoughts are with you" and get a pass?[0] This was pure PR. Everyone claims he's so smart and all this, but he ignored the domain when he designed this! Those SEAL divers aren't trained to work with a kid size submersible. Human bodies flex and can move around the narrow areas of the cave, this metal tube can't do that. If they had used this they would not have had training to fall back on when everything went south.
Musk injected himself into this situation as only a narcissist can and decided to PR the hell out of it.
Yeah, there's just a bit of anti-Musk sentiment lately, but he brings it on himself.
[0] I don't think they should. I think businesses should stay out of it. Even the ones helping would do themselves a favor and play down their involvement. It's the respectful thing to do.
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
> who die of malnutrition Do they die of malnutrition or governmental corruption? I thought it was proven in the 1980's that the problem isn't a lack of food, it's the degenerate political systems blocking aid from reaching those who are dying. At least that's the prevailing narrative on reddit.
There is also the issue that food is not free and people starving can't pay for it.
I honestly think this is an oversimplification.
1. Food is free for the starving in many places around the world.
2. Where it isn't free, a meal of rice and beans is usually within reach of even the poorest.
3. Where it is out of reach of the poor, it may be due to corruption; ie North Korea redirecting food supplies to the army instead of the public, and withholding it from prison camps.
Don't fixate on the price or you'll miss the forest for the trees.
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you tease apart the effects of capitalism and industrialism? Or are they inextricably linked in your world view?
Look at the noncapitalistic countries that industrialized and compare outcomes.
Can you provide me one or two examples from this set? I found a list on Wikipedia [0] of currently non-capitalist countries and many of them sound like perfectly nice places, but I am not aware of when they all "industrialized" and what their socioeconomic climate was like at the time and it seems like drilling deeper is going to require a lot of research. So an example or two that you know about would be helpful.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-capitalist_and_co...
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear that argument a lot. 6 million is a holocaust a year, I don't know if that is worth celebrating.
You literally turned the number on its head. Obviously OP is not celebrating 6 million dead, but celebrating the 14 million saved .
And if you look at that as a percentage of the current population. The number of deaths went DOWN as the population grew by billions. It’s amazing
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#378I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.
What does it mean to "promote capitalism"?
Basically buying stuff made in poor countries.
This (more than literally anything else) has made a staggering improvement in the lives of hundreds of millions of people over the last few decades.
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you tease apart the effects of capitalism and industrialism? Or are they inextricably linked in your world view?
Consider places that try industrialism without capitalism: do they perform worse than those with both? I think the answer is yes, by far. For example, there's plenty of communist countries that had industrialism but failed to grow economically as much as capitalist peers as examples. I'm unaware of many (any?) examples counter to this.
We are at max depth but to address the perceived lack of a shred of capitalism in the USSR, I can't help but point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy which was espoused by Lenin himself and included a large component of free market capitalism. It was the efforts undertaken by Stalin in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization that saw the official state endorsement of capitalism expire. You can see what the effects of that were https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#/m... and draw your own conclusions.
--edit--
Note that I thought this comment chain was at max reply depth, this comment was a reply to scotty79 not the parent.
Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Musk had no business being involved. Really, 'inventing' a MVP prototype of a submarine which he 'tested' in a swimming pool and then intended to test for real on live children, when an existing rescue effort underway was working? This was egoism at its finest, taking public credit for 'helping' with a rescue he wasn't invited or asked to help with. And the media ate it up hook, line and sinker.
>and then intended to test for real on live children, when an existing rescue effort underway was working? It was a good alternative to telling them to hold their breath and dragging them through dark and claustrophobic submerged spaces... They tested it to make sure it was water-tight and easy to maneuver. Worst case you throw an oxygen tank in it and put a full-face regulator on each kid in the event it would have…
> It was a good alternative to telling them to hold their breath and dragging them through dark and claustrophobic submerged spaces...
You can't say that?! Those SEALs train ALL the time so they have training to fall back on when things happen. You can't introduce something like this and expect them to use it. They would have no training to fall back on.