Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued • Hacker News Board

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#331

Post by the_spacebyte » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #279

the_spacebyte wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1015105500105412610 Yes it was not an official call for help, but someone asked. He even acknowledged that experts were already on the field, and his first reaction was to just send goods there before advancing with engineering ideas. Following your idea why were there so many civilian divers? Why not let the Thai military do the job? That's just PR. Those attention-seeking ba…

The divers were highly qualified in ways the Thai military was not. That's why they were there. BTW, I'm not a neckbeard since I shaved this morning, but really, if you resort to attacks like that, it makes you look like a jerk

And Musk and his team (and I believe many others) are qualified enough to present other, engineering, alternatives parallel to the main one. Why shouldn't they? Why is that seen as attention-grabbing?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#332

Post by anothergoogler » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

_sbxe wrote: post #245

I feel like we all really needed this story. For once, there's nothing political or divisive. There's no one to be mad at. It's not "us or them". The world's top experts came together, volunteered for a dangerous mission, sacrificed, and pulled it off. Ra! Ra! Humanity! Feels like a brief moment of redemption.

The news cycle sure thought we needed it.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#333

Post by hajile » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #65

jeandejean wrote: post #20

I'm more surprised by the fact that they went that far into the cave in the first place! The coach should be in prison now for putting so many kids in danger and be the cause of a rescue diver death!

You are being down voted (probably too glib), but among all the excitement of everyone getting out, there is a rescuer who did die. There have been discussions about what responsibility people who act recklessly and put the rescuers in harms way should take (unprepared mountain climbers/ people who don't evacuate storms). I too was transfixed by the maps and cave cross sections and did wonder how they got in that far…

The 1-2-3 of rescue. Save yourself first, your partner second, and the victim last.

It's tragic that he died. You aren't supposed to go down more than 1/3 of your air supply so you have the same amount to get back with plus a third for emergencies. In addition, he was literally carrying extra oxygen tanks. I don't know the full story, but from what I understand, he wasn't fouled -- just ran out of air. In that case, it seems like he put the victims ahead of himself by acting recklessly and paid the price.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#334

Post by kazinator » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

mikec3010 wrote: post #311

abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

> who die of malnutrition Do they die of malnutrition or governmental corruption? I thought it was proven in the 1980's that the problem isn't a lack of food, it's the degenerate political systems blocking aid from reaching those who are dying. At least that's the prevailing narrative on reddit.

Not to mention the fact that the fate of those children is decided before they are conceived.

It is the handiwork of the rapists that beget these children.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#335

Post by SideQuark » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

c22 wrote: post #310

merpnderp wrote: post #272

I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.

How do you tease apart the effects of capitalism and industrialism? Or are they inextricably linked in your world view?

Consider places that try industrialism without capitalism: do they perform worse than those with both? I think the answer is yes, by far.

For example, there's plenty of communist countries that had industrialism but failed to grow economically as much as capitalist peers as examples. I'm unaware of many (any?) examples counter to this.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#336

Post by dkasper » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #328

chongli wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Billionaires like Bill Gates. Countless volunteer aid workers with organizations such as MSF. Fact #1: Since 1960, child deaths have plummeted from 20 million a year to 6 million a year. [1] This was posted quite recently here on HN. Perhaps you missed it. At the end of the day, the problem of child poverty and the death and suffering i…

I hear that argument a lot. 6 million is a holocaust a year, I don't know if that is worth celebrating.

It is worth celebrating because 14 million per year were saved.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#337

Post by los_angeles » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

monkmartinez wrote: post #315

trissi wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But about 3 times as much new people are born, most of them in poverty....

My opinion on this is unpopular, but I will say it anyway; People shouldn't have more kids than they can afford.

Well, sure, but the people having 8 kids in Sudan probably aren't checking the comments on HN for family planning advice.

So they are probably (well, not probably)... they ARE going to have more kids whether you like it or not.

The question becomes how do we (Western society, which has more resources than we know what to do with) address the issue and try to do good in the world.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#338

Post by Reedx » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #256

It's very odd that this somehow made it to all the media headlines. Sure, a happy ending and so forth, but in a world of ~7.5B, including indescribable tragedies on a daily basis, it makes you wonder how they knew the daily drama would lead to such ad dollars.

"Kids stuck in well" stories have a history of success for the news.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#339

Post by conjectures » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

nxc18 wrote: post #262

abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

I keep coming back to this. How many lives could have been saved it improved with the expense we put into saving 12 people who went caving in monsoon season? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad society found a way to save them, I just wish we took the every day threats to human life more seriously.

When you think 'the money', you're probably counting sunk costs.

What do Thai Navy divers do? If there's no war on, they're probably training. What better training than a live rescue mission? I.e. the wages for those highly skilled Thai teams have probably been paid down already.

Similarly international forces benefit from co-operation because it's something they would want to do anyway: good will, training in co-operation, skills training.

As for volunteers their time is hardly a cost in the same way. But if you're a cave diving medic, the expected utility of using your time to save people in a cave is probably better than working and donating to a charity.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#340

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #328

chongli wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Billionaires like Bill Gates. Countless volunteer aid workers with organizations such as MSF. Fact #1: Since 1960, child deaths have plummeted from 20 million a year to 6 million a year. [1] This was posted quite recently here on HN. Perhaps you missed it. At the end of the day, the problem of child poverty and the death and suffering i…

I hear that argument a lot. 6 million is a holocaust a year, I don't know if that is worth celebrating.

20 million a year minus 6 million a year is 14 million a year. That's over two holocausts a year that are no longer dying. That's worth celebrating...

... without forgetting the holocaust a year that is still happening.