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How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

wired.com

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Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#11

Post by extralego »

sokoloff wrote: post #9
1986 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such systems cost money, generally collected through taxation. At least in the US, the rich have largely demonstrated that they would rather direct money towards lobbying against a rise in taxation on them, than to the taxes that would fund such a system. So at its core, "the rich don't care" isn't an empty argument, but rather an accurate assessment of one of the root causes.

It's perfectly possible to care about an issue supported by taxation and still be opposed to higher general taxation. I'm very much pro-UBI, yet anti government waste. Too much of government acts, or at least appears to act, as little fiefdoms, employing people with relatively comfortable salaries, no market pressure, and little other controls to ensure they run tightly, efficiently, and effectively. If you want to r…

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you.

Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government?

If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society. Naturally, poverty erodes the means for civility so governments in civilized nations around the world successfully apply their government as an organization sufficient for this task. If that sufficiency falls below their approval, they repair it.

If your issue concerns government in the abstract, then quite simply: you don’t care about people in poverty. If you can’t find the decency to be honest about that, then you’ve got even bigger problems.

UBI prioritizes your economy, not your neighbors in poverty. Note Socialists do not support UBI and for anyone concerned that socialists simply want handouts, this should table that argument once and for all.

Social programs prioritize caring for people by:

- Decoupling access to basic commodity needs from the whims and woes of the market

- Built-in protections from abuse. Uncaring folk like to criticize welfare cash recipients as dishonest and lazy. Social programs that avoid cash also avoid this potential altogether.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#12

Post by mathgladiator »

extralego wrote: post #11
sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly possible to care about an issue supported by taxation and still be opposed to higher general taxation. I'm very much pro-UBI, yet anti government waste. Too much of government acts, or at least appears to act, as little fiefdoms, employing people with relatively comfortable salaries, no market pressure, and little other controls to ensure they run tightly, efficiently, and effectively. If you want to r…

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

Are we going to play empathy Olympics?

The problem is that you can't decouple commodity needs from the market because life is suffering.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#13

Post by wilsonnb2 »

mathgladiator wrote: post #12
extralego wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

Are we going to play empathy Olympics? The problem is that you can't decouple commodity needs from the market because life is suffering.

> you can't decouple commodity needs from the market

Why not? Isn't that what agricultural subsidies are for?

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#14

Post by manigandham »

1986 wrote: post #6
timavr wrote: post #2

It is really weird if we talk about issues from Marxist class struggle framework. Homelessness exist because rich don’t care, which is an empty argument. The better argument is that we don’t have systems in place to deal with the problem. Let’s build them.

Such systems cost money, generally collected through taxation. At least in the US, the rich have largely demonstrated that they would rather direct money towards lobbying against a rise in taxation on them, than to the taxes that would fund such a system. So at its core, "the rich don't care" isn't an empty argument, but rather an accurate assessment of one of the root causes.

Maybe consider that it's how taxes are actually used instead of just higher taxes?

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#15

Post by sokoloff »

extralego wrote: post #11
sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly possible to care about an issue supported by taxation and still be opposed to higher general taxation. I'm very much pro-UBI, yet anti government waste. Too much of government acts, or at least appears to act, as little fiefdoms, employing people with relatively comfortable salaries, no market pressure, and little other controls to ensure they run tightly, efficiently, and effectively. If you want to r…

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

> you don’t care about people in poverty. If you can’t find the decency to be honest about that, then you’ve got even bigger problems.

I have a positive, but finite, amount that I care about people in poverty.

> UBI prioritizes your economy, not your neighbors in poverty

Giving people in poverty a sustenance level of amount money per month seems it prioritizes neighbors in poverty more than today. To use your own words: If you can’t find the decency to be honest about that, then you’ve got even bigger problems.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#16

Post by tdevito »

I used to be an Instacart Shopper and I'm currently taking a web development bootcamp in Manhattan and now I'm on track to make more money than my parents ever did, which is a win in my book. I will do everything I can to make it the next step to the "Inner Party", but what if I don't? Does that mean I "lost at life" if I only end up Upper Middle Class? This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology onto anyone not in the "Inner Party", and it's insulting. I am not a victim of anything, certainly not some impenetrable "caste system".

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#17

Post by TheBeardKing »

extralego wrote: post #11
sokoloff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly possible to care about an issue supported by taxation and still be opposed to higher general taxation. I'm very much pro-UBI, yet anti government waste. Too much of government acts, or at least appears to act, as little fiefdoms, employing people with relatively comfortable salaries, no market pressure, and little other controls to ensure they run tightly, efficiently, and effectively. If you want to r…

Your views exemplify selfish priorities and an uncaring worldview. If you care about others, let it be reflected in your behavior and people (like me) will stop doubting you. Is your issue with government in the abstract or your government? If the latter, the caring solution is to change the government through voting, vocalizing and organizing. Governments are instituted to maintain a level of civility in a society.…

What you call the "whims and woes of the market" others would call market efficiency. Being a government employee myself, and dealing with multiple state and federal government programs in my personal life including my mortgage, I am fully on board with allowing the market to better serve the needs of people making their own decisions with cash in hand funded collectively by every citizen of this country. Which, by the way, if not called socialism then I don't know what is.

Also, UBI by its very acronymm is Universal, meaning everyone gets the same amount. That's the only fair way to do it, and would negate criticism of cash recipients being "dishonest and lazy." Yes some pay more than others, but that's simply a re-implementation of our current progressive tax system.

I think it all basically comes down to your view on government - can they do the right and best thing, or can the individual make better decisions for themselves. By disempowering the invididual, you may even the outcomes, but you disadvantage those who would most benefit from achieving more in life - which in turn, benefits society.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#18

Post by pizzetta »

tdevito wrote: post #16

I used to be an Instacart Shopper and I'm currently taking a web development bootcamp in Manhattan and now I'm on track to make more money than my parents ever did, which is a win in my book. I will do everything I can to make it the next step to the "Inner Party", but what if I don't? Does that mean I "lost at life" if I only end up Upper Middle Class? This author is trying to push a neo-marxist victim ideology onto…

Maybe Wired knows that and all they are doing is trying to create discord in order to have more engagement and drive more views.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#19

Post by amarkov »

prepend wrote: post #3

This is an odd use of of the term caste. Or even class. Both of these imply low or no mobility within social hierarchies. But I don’t think this is the case. “An Outer Party member could reach the Inner Party by chancing into an early job at a lottery-ticket company (such as Facebook or Google) or by becoming a successful entrepreneur. But that’s rare; most of the Outer Party prefers working for the Inner Party, grad…

The traditional American dream is that you change your status through making friends and simple hard work. If you're the hardest working and most dedicated Walmart sales associate, you'll quickly become a manager, and you can iterate on that at least until you're a regional director or something.

From that perspective, it's weird to look in on a typical Silicon Valley company, where it's understood that only people with specific technical knowledge are qualified to make important decisions. And it's downright scary to look at Uber, where the drivers have no internal mobility even in theory.

Re: How Silicon Valley Fuels an Informal Caste System

#20

Post by geebee »

prepend wrote: post #3

This is an odd use of of the term caste. Or even class. Both of these imply low or no mobility within social hierarchies. But I don’t think this is the case. “An Outer Party member could reach the Inner Party by chancing into an early job at a lottery-ticket company (such as Facebook or Google) or by becoming a successful entrepreneur. But that’s rare; most of the Outer Party prefers working for the Inner Party, grad…

That's a decent point. I want to be clear that I'm open to the thesis here, that the class system in Silicon Valley has caste like elements to it. However, this particular article doesn't investigate this thesis. Instead it appears, at least in part, to be grabbing the emotional impact of a "caste" system while discussing what is a class system.
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