Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized • Hacker News Board

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#281

Post by granaldo » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:26 AM UTC

ZirconCode wrote: post #27

hudon wrote: post #23

You can see the state (volume, # daily users) of some of these promised "dapps" here: https://dappradar.com . It is indeed a barren wasteland. And when a new popular ICO comes along, the Ethereum network struggles and fees skyrocket. It's weird because people compare it to the early days of the Internet... but the early Internet was useful from its beginning: you could at least send messages and files across the netw…

What if we make a currency where each ICO is one coin?

ethereum lets people create a coin and conduct ICO there are thousands of them https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/all?asset_platform_id=279

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#282

Post by darawk » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:34 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #267

darawk wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of these can essentially require transparency + encryption (i.e. git + signatures), not the whole blockchain, That's just empirically not true. You need to timestamp transactions in a BFT way for all those examples. No way around it. > hence can be had without the huge energy losses (that come from many nodes (re-)computing the same result over and over, and You can get this with Proof of Stake. But you do need…

> You need to timestamp transactions No, for most things what you really need is a happens before relationship. Git does that better, since it supports multiple timelines (branches) that can be resolved (merged) cleanly if there are no conflicts (double spends).

> if there are no conflicts (double spends).

What about when there are, though?

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#283

Post by stephen_g » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:36 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #260

solotronics wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all of this makes sense to be but what happens when someone hacks your grandmas cellphone then they own her house title and she cant open the front door? I guess you could have a 3rd party that has to verify everything ( government ) but then you are basically back to just doing it with a paper deed at the courthouse.

These are open questions. And it may be that blockchain will be an underlying infrastructure that is mostly used by large, centralized entities to settle between each other. But if that's the equilibrium into which we settle, individuals will still have the option to control their own assets in a true sense, even if most people choose not to.

The question is why would large, centralised entities use a blockchain to settle between each other? Large, centralised entities generally can and do trust each other to the extent required, so won't ever need a blockchain because they can use a more efficient system...

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#284

Post by darawk » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:36 AM UTC

solotronics wrote: post #276

darawk wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are open questions. And it may be that blockchain will be an underlying infrastructure that is mostly used by large, centralized entities to settle between each other. But if that's the equilibrium into which we settle, individuals will still have the option to control their own assets in a true sense, even if most people choose not to.

it would be really cool to be able to verify the ownership of any property on earth by checking Bitcoin or Eth block chain, but there would have to be a way to have authority unanimously change the record.

Perhaps a solution to that might be to give the government the authority to relabel a token. That is, every property is represented by a unique transferable token. However, the ledger that says which token represents which property is maintained by the government, centrally. Under ordinary circumstances, this ledger is not consulted/used but when say, someone has their property seized by a court, it might be.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#285

Post by darawk » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:37 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #247

darawk wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is true, but exchanges have become the de facto on/off ramp for cryptos. If I want to acquire bitcoin without mining, how am I going to do it other than buying from a centralized entity? Sure, that's true. But once you own them, they're yours to do with as you please. You can also buy them from someone peer to peer if you really want to onramp in a 'decentralized' way.

> You can also buy them from someone peer to peer if you really want to onramp in a 'decentralized' way Now we're back to no advantage over cash or bartering.

Only for the onramp. I know that you know that, too. Why are you arguing disingenuously? You have a reasonable case to make, you don't need to stoop to that.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#286

Post by hannasanarion » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:45 AM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #273

hudon wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People use cryptocurrency too. For value transfer, and to a more limited extent, for dapps like Augur. Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. My argument rephrased: "Because cryptocurrency investors have repeatedly made claims that don't pan out, we can be reasonably skeptical and concerned about their energy consumption until they actually fix it or at the very least provide peer-r…

> Soooo, buying drugs and illegal gambling? Sure, I'll give you that one. Well, why is this so easy for you to brush aside? If indeed blockchain tech can successfully subvert bad public policy, isn't that pretty remarkable in its own right?

No it isn't. You could do the same thing with dollars in the mail. All bitcoin does is make it easier to commit shady transactions.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#287

Post by fairpixels » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

dougmccune wrote: post #123

fairpixels wrote: post #82

That’s actually a conservative number. We [1] design UI/UX for all sorts of startups and the last year a good chunk of that was for ICO related projects. The vast majority dies somewhere during the sales period. [1] http://fairpixels.pro

So you actively seek out and work for companies that you believe are most likely pure scams? I don't mean this to come off as too judgmental, I'm honestly curious what your take on it is. Does the fact that you know your client is trying to rip people off factor into the decision to take on a project? Or do you think the ICOs you design for are all well-intentioned and just so happen to all fail after/during their to…

We never seek them out specifically and it’s impossible to tell if someone is planning to scam people. Pretty much each of those projects start of with seemingly great founders, boards of advisors and even tech. Some projects did succeed and others are in progress right now so who knows how things will evolve.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#288

Post by hannasanarion » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:49 AM UTC

tfha wrote: post #203

hudon wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. What if we put "beginning" as in "before it was even called the Internet"? Indeed, ARPANET, which came online in 1969, saw fast growth in the United States in the 70s. Nodes came online to use it , not to make a quick buck. The government subsidized it because its potential use was obvious. Email started being used in 1972, FTP in 1973. To compare these world-changing technologies that were invented and used merel…

I would definitely argue that blockchain is closer to the arpanet days than it is to the world wide web days. This stuff is so early. A lot of the really enabling infrastructure doesn't exist, and won't exist for years. Most builders have no idea what the true strengths and limitations are. It'll get there, but it's not a 2020 type of get there. Maybe 2025.

What? That makes no sense. What infrastructure? What strengths? All you're doing is solving hash puzzles because some people arbitrarily decided that solved hash puzzles have value.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#289

Post by hannasanarion » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #282

tomp wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need to timestamp transactions No, for most things what you really need is a happens before relationship. Git does that better, since it supports multiple timelines (branches) that can be resolved (merged) cleanly if there are no conflicts (double spends).

> if there are no conflicts (double spends). What about when there are, though?

Then let the person that everyone agrees to be an authority (the project owner) decide, not the person who happens to own the most GPUs.

Re: Half of ICOs Die Within Four Months After Token Sales Finalized

#290

Post by klenwell » Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 1:53 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #135

darawk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's weird because people compare it to the early days of the Internet... but the early Internet was useful from its beginning That really depends on where you put 'beginning'. But more to the point, blockchains are useful now, just like the internet was. They're just not useful for all the things that are being promised (yet). Also, just like the internet wasn't. > Now, all we see is rampant fraud and a complete d…

> But more to the point, blockchains are useful now, just like the internet was. They're just not useful for all the things that are being promised (yet) How long do we have to wait to find a valid use case for blockchains? It's been 10 years now and we're still asking the same question.

Transcript of text exchange with my sister just yesterday:

SISTER: Any interest in learning blockchain development? I'm getting into that world and will need someone reliable. Plus, I'll be able to expose you to projects and get you consulting gigs. I know you have your new job and all it's demands. Timing prob isn't good but figured I'd check in anyway.

ME: No thanks. I know the blockchain technologically is a thing but every application of it I've read about (e.g cryptocurrencies) looks like a scam perpetrated by people who think the problem with society is being social, misunderstand the history and purpose of the Federal Reserve system, and/or believe the idle rich deserve to be richer. I understand there's a lot of stupid money washing around in those circles. Just make sure you're playing with somebody else's money.

SISTER: I have no interest in the ICO crypto currency application. I'm more into the smart contracts. Id like to apply it to healthcare (help end the opioid crisis). Or the credit reporting agencies...get rid of them and allow individuals to control access to and use of that information. So many applications that are just beginning to scratch the surface. My MBA thesis project is using blockchain to help end the opioid epidemic through better diagnosis of individuals more prone to addiction or just getting it to sell on the streets.

ME: I've seen some discussions of using blockchains for things like certifications or logistics. They've all seemed kinda hand-wavey to me. Like yes there may be some minor efficiencies to be gained by moving to a new tracking/trust system. But the real issues will still be the humans at the ends of the transactions. I'm not sure how the blockchain fixes that. But maybe you can persuade me. Fortunately, the technology itself is over my head. I've seen some python tutorials I could probably dig up for you. But I don't have time myself to try to pick it up.

SISTER: The ledger platform we are currently planning to use (hyperledger by IBM) has some free training but apparently you need a basic understanding so I'm sure it will be way over my head.

ME: I hate to be cynical (j/k I love it) but I'm sure that's the point. IBM would love to convince the next generation of MBAs they need Hype(r)ledger™ and its attendant battalion of IBM consultants to reimplement a table or two that someone in the org already has working like a charm in a simple spreadsheet.

SISTER: Well duh...they're for profit public businesses. I would be worried if that wasn't their reason. That doesn't mean that the applications hosted on their platform aren't practical or solve a problem that prior technology couldn't. 90 people die every day from opioid overdoses ... what if your technology could reduce that number to even 80? Profits are secondary. Check out blockmedx.com when you have a second.

So there you have it I guess: blockmedx.com