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ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

riscv-basics.com

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Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#71

Post by wlesieutre »

deepnotderp wrote: post #66
wlesieutre wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RISC-V foundation says not: >No announced RISC-V silicon is susceptible, and the popular open-source RISC-V Rocket processor is unaffected as it does not perform memory accesses speculatively. https://www.techpowerup.com/240310/risc-v-foundation-issues-... Do you have a source?

The rocket core isn't OoO, they even say so...

It says right there "No announced RISC-V silicon is susceptible."

Does someone actually make a RISC-V processor with out of order execution? Or is this a "They're going to make one eventually, so they'll have to address Spectre attacks before that happens" problem?

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#72

Post by [deleted] »

blauditore wrote: post #32
MisterTea wrote: post #23

I call shenanigans, this is a fake page. First off the page isn't coming from arm's own domain yet it appears to mimic the look and feel of the arm site. No cookie acceptance policy and the missing links from the bottom of the page are further proof.

Yeah, WHOIS lists DomainsByProxy.com - why would they hide their name in the domain registration if they write "arm" on the header in big letters, linking to arm.com? This actually looks like a smear campaign against ARM.

[deleted]

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#73

Post by lokedhs »

394549 wrote: post #56
Uberphallus wrote: post #47

A friend works in ARM and was extremely surprised (negatively) when I shared this link with him RISC-V may, perhaps, compete in two fields with ARM: education, where ARM doesn't give a fuck, and hacker boards, which is a tiny market compared to smartphones, smarttvs and so on. There have been around 15 million Raspberry Pi (the most popular SBC) sold in 6 years. Samsung sold 321 million smartphones last year alone. W…

> RISC-V may, perhaps, compete in two fields with ARM: education, where ARM doesn't give a fuck, and hacker boards, which is a tiny market Those seem like very similar markets to those that Linux started out with. AFAIK, Sun never ran FUD/attack ads against Linux, but this feels similar to a hypothetical world where they did so very early in 1993. I doubt FUD will ultimately be able to prevent the adoption of RISC-V,…

If I recall correctly SCO did. At least they pointed out how much more stable they were than Linux.

And SCO was much more vulnerable to Linux than Sun was. Linux could even run SCO binaries unmodified.

And we know what happened to them later.

And I say this as someone who used to work for a SCO distributor, and later Sun.

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#74

Post by slrz »

baybal2 wrote: post #19
rwmj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rather desperate. ARM could easily head off RISC-V by releasing a few low end cores under an open source license, but instead they're being disrupted. Rather classic case of the Innovator's Dilemma.

M0 and one memory controller they license are quasi open source. And that's it.

Where to get it?

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#75

Post by TomVDB »

gruturo wrote: post #49

If this article is genuine (there are many comments arguing it might not be) I would consider it an excellent endorsement of RISC-V. If a company with an awesome engineering, like I consider ARM to be, is scared to the point of authoring some FUD, RISC-V has to be _really_ promising!

When I search for "risc-v basics arm" in Google, this article comes up first as a paid Ad.

So somebody is paying google to make this thing come up on top.

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#76

Post by dtech »

deepnotderp wrote: post #52

Yes, it's from arm, who has a vested interest, yes it's in poor taste, and yes, it's stretching in some places, but it's not necessarily inaccurate...

I do not understand the commotion either. As far as attack ads go, this keeps very close to the truth and points out legitimate concerns.

This so far away from the early 00's Microsoft anti-Linux campagin that you can't even really call it FUD

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#77

Post by oytis »

blauditore wrote: post #32
MisterTea wrote: post #23

I call shenanigans, this is a fake page. First off the page isn't coming from arm's own domain yet it appears to mimic the look and feel of the arm site. No cookie acceptance policy and the missing links from the bottom of the page are further proof.

Yeah, WHOIS lists DomainsByProxy.com - why would they hide their name in the domain registration if they write "arm" on the header in big letters, linking to arm.com? This actually looks like a smear campaign against ARM.

But the diagram is actually hosted by ARM. Maybe it's ARM wants to think us that RISC-V supporters launched a campaign against them \s

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#78

Post by Symmetry »

Uberphallus wrote: post #47

A friend works in ARM and was extremely surprised (negatively) when I shared this link with him RISC-V may, perhaps, compete in two fields with ARM: education, where ARM doesn't give a fuck, and hacker boards, which is a tiny market compared to smartphones, smarttvs and so on. There have been around 15 million Raspberry Pi (the most popular SBC) sold in 6 years. Samsung sold 321 million smartphones last year alone. W…

There's an important third group, companies that want access to custom instructions they need and have the resources to modify a RISC-V design but don't want to spin a full custom design. I think both WD's and NVidia's use of RISC-V is in this category. It looks like NVidia was willing to spend for custom and WD's had been making due with larger ARM cores than they could get away with when they customized their processor - that's me reading between the lines as best I can - but WD's certainly been lost as an ARM customer and probably there'll be more in the future. Only a few companies, probably, but ones that are relatively big.

Re: ARM: “RISC-V Architecture: Understand the Facts”

#80

Post by deepnotderp »

wlesieutre wrote: post #71
deepnotderp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rocket core isn't OoO, they even say so...

It says right there "No announced RISC-V silicon is susceptible." Does someone actually make a RISC-V processor with out of order execution? Or is this a "They're going to make one eventually, so they'll have to address Spectre attacks before that happens" problem?

Yeah, no shit, because there's no major RISC-V silicon that's OoO. If you solely look at ARM cores that don't speculate, then ARM cores aren't vulnerable either.

Also pretty sure BOOMv2 has been taped out: https://content.riscv.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Wed0936...

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