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A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

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Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#31

Post by gsich »

cies wrote: post #20
baxtr wrote: post #6

It's a controversial issue, but I try to refrain from eating any type of dairy products (with mixed results) because of two main reasons: - It seems that science is supporting a vegan lifestyle for longevity/a longer health span [1] - Cows are so bad for the environment... [1] https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet/

Dairy is very unhealthy for grown-up humans... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3c_D0s391Q

Even the title cries clickbait.

For what it's worth: life is deadly. Deal with it and eat what you like.

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#32

Post by nordsieck »

steve19 wrote: post #11

A friend of mine, a chemistry teacher, taught in an Indian school for a number of years. He said a huge problem was buying milk for the students that wasn't cut with bad water and/or other chemicals. They tried paying above market price, equivalent to the price of pure milk, and it worked for a while, but he kept testing the milk and found the vendor eventually started diluting the milk. I guess the temptation was gr…

Apparently many people in China buy imported powdered milk for the same reason - the local stuff may be adulterated.

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#33

Post by wumpus »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
baxtr wrote: post #6

It's a controversial issue, but I try to refrain from eating any type of dairy products (with mixed results) because of two main reasons: - It seems that science is supporting a vegan lifestyle for longevity/a longer health span [1] - Cows are so bad for the environment... [1] https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet/

Guy selling a book sounds like bullshit. A 2017 study finds "no evidence that following a vegetarian diet, semi-vegetarian diet or a pesco-vegetarian diet has an independent protective effect on all-cause mortality." N = 267,180 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519/ Broadly speaking, a vegan diet is a diet of deficiencies. (Meta-analysis from oxford) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2018.…

The only thing worse than the pro-vegan whataboutism that you replied to is anti-vegan propaganda like your last link. Sheesh.

And the Oxford study has a whole lot of "due to poverty" evidence. "This recommendation is bad because it does't work in Kenya in areas of subsistence farming, where the diet is already kinda shitty" -- really?

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#34

Post by Gustomaximus »

cageface wrote: post #26
Simon_says wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the mum is crying for her kid Sounds awful. Do you have a reference where I can read/watch more about it?

This video sums up the dark side of the dairy industry pretty well: https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI

I'd say that video shows the worst of the dairy industry.

I grew up spending time on a grandparents dairy over school holidays. It was nothing like this video. Yes you do have things like farms putting their arm up cows vigina and bobby calves being separated. But usually it's a clean and non-traumatic process. Things like the mastitis and blood in the milk is unusual.

While I dont doubt there are some highly cruel and unethical operations running, on the dairy farms I used to spend time on those farmers love their animals. That's what these video rarely show, the care and love farmers have for their animals. And 99% of the time that animal is happy and well looked after. But grab clips of the worst farmers at their worst moments and this is what you get.

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#36

Post by toomanybeersies »

nordsieck wrote: post #32
steve19 wrote: post #11

A friend of mine, a chemistry teacher, taught in an Indian school for a number of years. He said a huge problem was buying milk for the students that wasn't cut with bad water and/or other chemicals. They tried paying above market price, equivalent to the price of pure milk, and it worked for a while, but he kept testing the milk and found the vendor eventually started diluting the milk. I guess the temptation was gr…

Apparently many people in China buy imported powdered milk for the same reason - the local stuff may be adulterated.

Not that the powder being imported stops adulteration from happening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

There is a cottage industry in Australia and New Zealand of people sending back milk powder and infant formula to China, often with newspapers or other proof that the package originated in Australia or NZ. There's no guarantee that the "NZ milk powder" you buy in China is real, however a sealed package from NZ is fairly certainly going to be real. I used to have a colleague from China who would bring an extra suitcase filled with infant formula and multivitamins evert time he went back home to China for his relatives.

There are now limits on the amount of infant formula you can buy at supermarkets here, especially in areas with a high concentration of Asian immigrants. Supermarket shelves were getting cleared out by grey-market exporters.

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#37

Post by Schumer »

wumpus wrote: post #33
simonsarris wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guy selling a book sounds like bullshit. A 2017 study finds "no evidence that following a vegetarian diet, semi-vegetarian diet or a pesco-vegetarian diet has an independent protective effect on all-cause mortality." N = 267,180 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519/ Broadly speaking, a vegan diet is a diet of deficiencies. (Meta-analysis from oxford) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2018.…

The only thing worse than the pro-vegan whataboutism that you replied to is anti-vegan propaganda like your last link. Sheesh. And the Oxford study has a whole lot of "due to poverty" evidence. "This recommendation is bad because it does't work in Kenya in areas of subsistence farming, where the diet is already kinda shitty" -- really?

Thank you. Finally a skeptic who doesn't have an agenda.

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#38

Post by kevinslashslash »

mark212 wrote: post #14
baxtr wrote: post #6

It's a controversial issue, but I try to refrain from eating any type of dairy products (with mixed results) because of two main reasons: - It seems that science is supporting a vegan lifestyle for longevity/a longer health span [1] - Cows are so bad for the environment... [1] https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet/

I'd rather milk them than kill them for hamburger and shoes.

Veal is a byproduct of dairy

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#39

Post by cageface »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #34
cageface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video sums up the dark side of the dairy industry pretty well: https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI

I'd say that video shows the worst of the dairy industry. I grew up spending time on a grandparents dairy over school holidays. It was nothing like this video. Yes you do have things like farms putting their arm up cows vigina and bobby calves being separated. But usually it's a clean and non-traumatic process. Things like the mastitis and blood in the milk is unusual. While I dont doubt there are some highly cruel a…

The vast majority of milk on supermarket shelves comes from factory farms operating exactly as described in the video. But even the best run boutique family dairy farms are going to have to figure out what to do with their male calves.

Watch this recent German documentary to see the reaction when a Bavarian dairy farmer that takes pride in treating her animals well sees the ultimate horrific fate of one of her male calves:

https://youtu.be/295wKcuDGQk

Re: A Milk Startup Takes on 300M Cows

#40

Post by baxtr »

simonsarris wrote: post #25
baxtr wrote: post #6

It's a controversial issue, but I try to refrain from eating any type of dairy products (with mixed results) because of two main reasons: - It seems that science is supporting a vegan lifestyle for longevity/a longer health span [1] - Cows are so bad for the environment... [1] https://valterlongo.com/daily-longevity-diet/

Guy selling a book sounds like bullshit. A 2017 study finds "no evidence that following a vegetarian diet, semi-vegetarian diet or a pesco-vegetarian diet has an independent protective effect on all-cause mortality." N = 267,180 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28040519/ Broadly speaking, a vegan diet is a diet of deficiencies. (Meta-analysis from oxford) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408398.2018.…

Are you confounding vegan and vegetarian?

Also, the study didn’t control for any of the other variables of his diet for example low sugar intake. You can eat as much vegetables as you like, if you eat a lot of sugar, your diet is still unhealthy.

Even if the paper holds for vegan there is still a difference in living longer and living health. That’s why I stated the health span, too.

I really recommend reading the book. Its evidence is based not only on large cohort studies like this one, but also on other sources like centennial studies, biochemical pathways etc. It is probably the best source for understanding what food does with our bodies as of today.

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