Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
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Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#2The article says there are four times as many cameras in China than in the US. This means approximately the same number of cameras per citizen. Where is the NYT article about the US' dystopian dreams?
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#3Why dystopian? Seems subjective.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#4It should be pointed out that, with or without AI, the cultural impulses are the same. This is an issue of authoritarianism, not of AI. If it should be feared more universally then the fear should be the authoritarian streak within all of us.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#5The technology isn't quite there, and Chinese law enforcement clearly exaggerates in order to maximize the current impact.
However, we are very close to the point where everything could be tracked, and recorded in a usable way - including the exact location of most citizens at all times, discrepancies in utility bills, shopping, internet activity (except possibly for those few with impeccable OpSec, and even that for only a bit longer), visited places, communication with new and old contacts, etc.
Some like to think semi-romantically that we are in/near the Cyberpunk future Sci-Fi promised. We are not - if a government truly goes all out (as the CCP has shown willingness to do), it will at some point simply be impossible to evade the law.
The cool greyhat who hides in the shadows, hacks government systems, and operates outside mainstream society is a pipe dream. When all is said and implemented escape could only come from above - another nation, intergovernmental organization or at minimum people high up in the system. Dissidents and revolutionaries would hardly be able to do much.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#6The article says there are four times as many cameras in China than in the US. This means approximately the same number of cameras per citizen. Where is the NYT article about the US' dystopian dreams?
Correct. In the US, subway stations and buses, elevators, convenience stores etc. have video cameras. Electronic tolling gantries have been used to track vehicles. Red light cameras are everywhere. I haven't seen a backlash.
It's always interesting to see a reference to a different society as a pedagogical tool to learn about something you might not like. The key step though is to see your own life from an outside perspective, i.e. introspection, which is a very lacking skill indeed.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#7These tracking systems are being combined with China's "social credit score". You think Transunion, Experian and Equifax are creepy and wrong? Spend ten minutes researching this:
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=chi...
Cameras with facial recognition are the tip of the iceberg. Through sufficiently strong government legal control, metadata such as mobile phone GPS and tower data can be correlated with facial recognition, bank debit card tracking, mobile payment app payments (which are HUGE in China), mandatory data reporting from Lyft/Uber type apps, toll road transponders on private cars, transit system stored value cards, and so forth. It's the aggregate of the whole which paints a picture of a person's entire lifestyle.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#8Wear a mask
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#9This article examines A.I., policing and authoritarianism from a Western perspective, rather than the local perspective. I think it would have served the article's balance to get a more local and relativist view on the intersectionality of the things they are looking to be objective about.
That said, if the technology delivers on the potential the gov't claims, I think they will have to relax the laws or make it flexible enough such that people and the government reach an understanding in expectations while affording people the maximum liberty while providing a base-line of expected behavior.
Obviously, without oversight from the people, this has the potential to turn into a monster.
China is a huge, huge country, historically it's been difficult for the central government to exercise its control all over its territory. This would be the realization of that historical desire.
Re: Inside China’s Dystopian Dreams: A.I., Shame and Lots of Cameras
#10These tracking systems are being combined with China's "social credit score". You think Transunion, Experian and Equifax are creepy and wrong? Spend ten minutes researching this: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=chi... Cameras with facial recognition are the tip of the iceberg. Through sufficiently strong government legal control, metadata such as mobile phone GPS and tower data can be correla…
The Big Three credit bureaus started exactly as a social credit system. They'd send snoops to keep tabs on you and collect gossip from your friends.