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Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

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Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously underestimate the burden the US places on its expats and banks that do business with them. Its to the point most foreign banks will not do business with US nationals.

No, I really don't :) :%s/most/a select few you shouldn't work with anyway

Its actually the vast majority of foreign banks, except those with a strong US presence (and even then not always. E.g. Deutsche bank won't take US clients in Germany [0]).

> Most Foreign Banks Don't Want U.S. Clients; How To Find One That Does [1]

> U.S. ambassador to Switzerland is asking banks in the country to reverse course and accept Americans as clients. [2]

0: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-banks-expats/u-s-expats-f...

1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/07/31/most-...

2: http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/20/investing/swiss-banks-americ...

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But not so much for a tiny subset with high earnings and particularly complex affairs. I think this is where I think we're talking about different things. It does not only affect people with high earnings. It affects all US citizens working abroad - including those who didn't exactly choose to live abroad. Again, I'm not talking only about double taxation. I'm talking about the need to file (which is true even if yo…

"think of all the tax docs you receive annually. You need to create all those tax docs yourself - including the ones you don't include with your return" I find this inconceivable - it sounds absurd, because (a) not all income is reported on those forms anyway, even US based, and (b) fabricating them yourself eliminates their purpose as a means to prevent tax evasion. What's the IRS going to do, say "well, you tried t…

>I feel like my leg is being pulled here.

Most of what I said is a simple Google search away. This will be my last comment:

>I find this inconceivable - it sounds absurd,

This is a fairly poor metric for evaluating the veracity of anything.

>because (a) not all income is reported on those forms anyway, even US based

In my experience, most forms of income in the US have been categorized. If you made money, there very likely is some appropriate form you should fill out. How much information the IRS needs about it varies amongst income types. As an example, I sold stuff online for a short while - did not make much money, but the volume was large (probably in the hundreds of items in one year). When I looked into what I needed to report for tax purposes, I was hoping it would be a simple case of 1. Costs of goods 2. Revenue made, and tax on the net. Nope: I found it fairly burdensome. Had I paid a tax person to do it, I would have spent more on the tax professional than my net profit (which really was very low).

>If you are a US adult who has filed tax returns for a few years, I would expect you to have some experience paying taxes on income that wasn't independently reported. Surely you don't fabricate the documents that are normally sent by the income source, when they aren't present.

No one said anything about "fabricating". If the agency doesn't provide you one, you provide that information to the IRS in some way or other. Sometimes it will literally be filling out the same form. In other cases, the IRS will have a schedule for you to fill out. Perhaps the W-2 was a bad example.

I know someone who sold a property he owned outside of the US. The income generated from the sale had to be reported and capital gains tax had to be paid. Now in the US when you do this, some party (I believe the seller's agent) gives you a simple form which you should attach to your tax return. Since this was a foreign transaction, the other party gave no such form. He considered just reporting it as an investment without that 1099. He consulted some tax folks, and they told him that he should do that, but while the IRS may look the other way, legally he is obligated to fill out the form and attach it. The problem was he did not have access to all the figures needed to fill out the form. They advised him to fill out what he could and likely the IRS will accept his explanation.

I personally have had to deal with the IRS - as others have commented, while it always does seem to work out, they can be very annoying. In my case, I was claiming education credits. Some years after I left school, they wanted proof. It took several back and forths to get them off my back, and the experience was quite negative. They continually said "Yes, if you give us such and such information, it will suffice," and when I gave them said information, they kept saying "Not enough - we want more proof". Had to reach out to the university for help, and they were quite surprised - they said they never had to give out as much information as I was asking for students to get those credits, and I was lucky they still had the extra information that I was requesting.

So yes, perhaps usually the IRS will accept the explanation for missing information in forms you can't get because you don't live in the US. But it's not a guarantee.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#103
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how likely it is people would renounce their citizenship.... that US passport / citizenship is pretty powerful.

Nothing any EU passport couldn't solve (with the added bonus of not having to pay taxes on your global income to the US government)

EU passports aren't just handed out to Western hemisphere folk, either, without certain specific ties (e.g. Ireland will give citizenship if one has an Irish citizen parent).

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not condemnded to life. IRS back taxes have a ten year statute of limitations (from the point of assessment). Formally they call it the collection statute expiration date (CSED). They can't collect after that. If you owe the IRS Wesley Snipes / Willie Nelson type money, they will typically sue you in court however (which can effectively extend the ten years by generating a suspension of the countdown).

For practical purposes, less than 10 years. Googling[1] suggests that the IRS has 3 years to audit you and ask for more money in general, and 6 years if the amount of income omitted is >25% the income you reported. This seems eminently reasonable to me. Just don't lie to them and you don't have to live in fear of making a small mistake. [1] https://www.thebalance.com/irs-statute-of-limitations-319294...

  3 years to audit you
3 years after you file. The clock doesn't start until you file a return.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"think of all the tax docs you receive annually. You need to create all those tax docs yourself - including the ones you don't include with your return" I find this inconceivable - it sounds absurd, because (a) not all income is reported on those forms anyway, even US based, and (b) fabricating them yourself eliminates their purpose as a means to prevent tax evasion. What's the IRS going to do, say "well, you tried t…

>I feel like my leg is being pulled here. Most of what I said is a simple Google search away. This will be my last comment: >I find this inconceivable - it sounds absurd, This is a fairly poor metric for evaluating the veracity of anything. >because (a) not all income is reported on those forms anyway, even US based In my experience, most forms of income in the US have been categorized. If you made money, there very…

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing any EU passport couldn't solve (with the added bonus of not having to pay taxes on your global income to the US government)

EU passports aren't just handed out to Western hemisphere folk, either, without certain specific ties (e.g. Ireland will give citizenship if one has an Irish citizen parent).

Most countries will give you one after living in the country for X years and taking some basic tests, or through investment.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#107
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I guess it's a good thing that's easy for them, then! I fail to see how you drew that conclusion - it was not what I said. If you consider paying $2K to avoid doing paperwork that gains you very little "easy", I would like to be your friend.

I'm aware that it's not what you said, this song ain't about you homie. (The rhetorical) you has a choice; fill out the paperwork you knew you were going to have to fill out (!), or renounce citizenship. If you make enough that this is a hardship, you can afford to pay someone to fix it for you. If not, renouncing (what I was talking about) is easy and cheap.

>If you make enough that this is a hardship, you can afford to pay someone to fix it for you. If not, renouncing (what I was talking about) is easy and cheap.

Your statement has within it an assumption that it is not a hardship for low income earners.

I would like to congratulate you. For a while now I've wondered at the value of engaging in online debate, and you've finally convinced me to apply this rule:

"Don't engage much with someone who can be enlightened with 30-60 minutes of searching the Internet, unless there is an audience."

Summary: Life is too short.

You have come off as quite sure of your stance, and I do not get any signal from you that you'd like to be informed otherwise. The submission is old enough that I do not think there is any audience left. I do not see any merit in engaging further.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#108
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I guess it's a good thing that's easy for them, then! I fail to see how you drew that conclusion - it was not what I said. If you consider paying $2K to avoid doing paperwork that gains you very little "easy", I would like to be your friend.

I'm aware that it's not what you said, this song ain't about you homie. (The rhetorical) you has a choice; fill out the paperwork you knew you were going to have to fill out (!), or renounce citizenship. If you make enough that this is a hardship, you can afford to pay someone to fix it for you. If not, renouncing (what I was talking about) is easy and cheap.

Renouncing citizenship is not something anyone should do who does not already have citizenship of another country. It's not always trivial to acquire said citizenship.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that it's not what you said, this song ain't about you homie. (The rhetorical) you has a choice; fill out the paperwork you knew you were going to have to fill out (!), or renounce citizenship. If you make enough that this is a hardship, you can afford to pay someone to fix it for you. If not, renouncing (what I was talking about) is easy and cheap.

>If you make enough that this is a hardship, you can afford to pay someone to fix it for you. If not, renouncing (what I was talking about) is easy and cheap. Your statement has within it an assumption that it is not a hardship for low income earners. I would like to congratulate you. For a while now I've wondered at the value of engaging in online debate, and you've finally convinced me to apply this rule: "Don't en…

You might get more out of the conversation if you read more critically. You have repeatedly on this thread totally missed the point of the person you are replying to.

That lack of understanding dovetails nicely with your apparent goal of educating others about their mistakes.

Re: Thousands of Americans Will Be Denied a Passport Because of Unpaid Taxes

#110
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! And then spend barely any of that tax money on what real Americans want!

To the extent this comment can be construed as anything but content-less partisan dog-whistling, it's pretty off the mark here. Obnoxious as this particular measure is, it was passed as part of the funding for a, relatively speaking, bipartisan infrastructure bill focusing on highways and rail. It's hard to imagine what "real Americans", whoever that's meant to imply, would rather it be spent on.

I'm guilty of being obnoxious? It sounds like you could push that slippery slope until "obnoxious" is simply "any opinion I don't agree with." My comment quite effectively brings up the issue of majority of Americans not wanting to pay taxes for most of the things that taxes are actually going to - we are not being represented effectively. You're the one making this a partisan issue. Just look at some of the polls - or just how many Americans are using other country's infrastructures to avoid excessive US taxes. On topic with this article is the fact that US is collecting taxes worldwide on earnings not even being made in the US - by people who are merely US citizens and not residents! If my comment were so contentless, then you wouldn't have the authoritarian reply that I'm merely whistling for my underclass of "dogs."
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