Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College • Hacker News Board

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#131

Post by pininja » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 7:26 AM UTC

ss2003 wrote: post #61

montrose wrote: post #20

If this trend is real it will be really good for social mobility.

I don't think so. Having a degree from CC marks you as from the lower class. Upper level and prestigious positions tend to be filled with people just like those already there. There was a good study on this http://www.asanet.org/journals/ASR/Dec12ASRFeature.pdf

I don’t agree with this speaking from experience in the tech industry, which is the focus of article. I went to CC. I work right along side folks with all kinds of prestigious backgrounds, and we’ve earned eachother’s respect based on performance on the job. My education label hasn’t hurt my ability to get the jobs (or salaries) I’ve wanted, either.

The trend I’ve noticed is that the more senior of a role we interview for the less and less we even look at their education. Much more comes from their work history.

While the study is possibly applicable to the jobs they studied (lawyer / business roles), I’m not sure it holds up in all sectors.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#132

Post by drawnwren » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 7:30 AM UTC

srtjstjsj wrote: post #116

oflannabhra wrote: post #83

My state has a network of community and technical colleges. There is a program that allows one to get their Associates degree through community colleges, then transfer to a state school and continue paying community college tuition. 10 years ago, this allowed for earning an engineering degree for $2k a year, or $8-10k. In my experience, community colleges were very much viewed as remedial. I’d guess that many of the…

Having a "top 5" school grad (even at the bachelors level) teaching at a community college is extremely rare. Your case was not common.

Warning N = 1, but I went to CC and there were plenty of Top 5 graduates working there. There are lots of reasons someone with a PhD from a top program might want to work at a community college. Passion for teaching, proximity to family, and much more flexible schedules are all reasons to choose to work at a CC over a 4 year.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#133

Post by drawnwren » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 7:34 AM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #45

mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

I didn't have my bachelor's degree until very recently... three jobs and nearly 10 years into my career. When I got my degree, no one seemed to care. I didn't get a pay raise or anything.

If you're a dev, my impression is that boot camps have changed this a lot. 10 years ago, someone without a bachelor's had a larger chance of fitting the 'lone hacker' stereotype than they do today. Of course, work experience trumps all.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#134

Post by drawnwren » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 7:38 AM UTC

kaycebasques wrote: post #42

Community college was one of the smartest moves of my life. The IGETC program ensured that my education was equivalent to what I would have gotten at a UC as a freshmen and sophomore. My teachers were mostly Stanford and Berkeley PHDs. They were dedicated to teaching. Not trying to balance research and teaching. 30 people per class, maximum. Arguably, I got a better education than UC students. And obviously, cost. My…

I have the same story. Except, I'm attending Harvard instead of Berkeley in the fall. Guess what, the credits still transfer. It's pretty jaw-dropping that the credits that cost me about $2k a semester will be used as a replacement for credits that cost $38k a semester.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#135

Post by pininja » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 7:47 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

freehunter wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Community colleges really are underrated. In a world where increasingly a bachelor's degree does not guarantee a job, university education is super expensive, and especially in fields where a bachelor's degree is not necessary (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education), vocational schools are the place to be. Four-year universities put big emphasis on well-rounded educations, so you're…

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

I’ve been involved in many interviews in my jobs, and we haven’t thrown an Software Engineer application out because they don’t have a bachelors.

Many of my friends and I don’t have a bachelors, and we haven’t noticed this issue. I have been asked if I have a degree, and I am honest about it and tell my story.

While not everyone agrees, I think it matters more what you’ve done on your own and on the job than what degree you’ve got.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#136

Post by user5994461 » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 8:54 AM UTC

pininja wrote: post #135

mixmastamyk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (I've never had an interview where they asked about my college education. They don’t ask, but many places throw your resume without a bachelors into the trash at the first step in the hiring process. Ask me how I know.

I’ve been involved in many interviews in my jobs, and we haven’t thrown an Software Engineer application out because they don’t have a bachelors. Many of my friends and I don’t have a bachelors, and we haven’t noticed this issue. I have been asked if I have a degree, and I am honest about it and tell my story. While not everyone agrees, I think it matters more what you’ve done on your own and on the job than what deg…

You can't notice the issue since you don't have a bachelor. You are de facto excluded.

It can be compensated with 15 years of experience. Better not be a millennial with no degree.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#137

Post by user5994461 » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #58

freehunter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, some fields care. Some don't. YMMV. Getting an interview depends on a million and a half factors, it's hard to say one is more important than the other.

And depends on culture - I have had negative reactions in the UK when being interviewed by IBM and by a French company. I also why its why I didn't get a call back from Ebay I suspect spain where the hr person was based might have some biases.

You won't be able to get a job in France without a master. Education is free and there are no jobs. The norm is to continue up to the master.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#138

Post by DrScump » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 9:17 AM UTC

oflannabhra wrote: post #83

My state has a network of community and technical colleges. There is a program that allows one to get their Associates degree through community colleges, then transfer to a state school and continue paying community college tuition. 10 years ago, this allowed for earning an engineering degree for $2k a year, or $8-10k. In my experience, community colleges were very much viewed as remedial. I’d guess that many of the…

I started at a community college and transferred to a state university, getting degrees at both, putting myself through the whole way while working.

I don't remember anything noteworthy (in terms of professional stature) from any of the state university teachers (few bad, some quite good, but no real experts). In the CC, an instructor I had multiple times had a Doctorate, the old-school Certificate in Data Processing, and decades of industry experience.

The best instructor I ever had in any discipline, whom I had for calculus, was at the CC. He authored several college math texts as well. Jack Minnick, you are greatly missed.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#139

Post by lsc » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 9:49 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #44

themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do this. I have a client who did this, and he now wonders how many interviews he _missed out on_ over a 3-year period because the employer was interested but the college screening came up lie-positive. Many, many employers public & private do verify. And some people will start rumors if you are in a small community, or if they know someone you know. And if the employer later finds out that you lied, the lie wil…

What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education? Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements. As I mentioned, even if you don’t get the job or lose the job, you’re still ahead of not trying. And you now have experience to put towards your next employer (and your old employer will only verify employment dates, as they don’t want to…

>What is your suggestion for OP where their resume is immediately discard because of no education?

Eh, I don't have a degree. My own strategy? I just apply until I find a place where that isn't a hard requirement.

I personally don't mention my education at all. Let them assume what they like. I mean, if they ask, I'll tell them, (they ask like 20% of the time, and it has never been a problem at that phase, as far as I can tell. At least once, the interviewer acted super surprised and I got the job.)

Note, a lot of places claim to "require" degrees. Treat that requirement like any other "requirement" on the job description; in my experience, you need something like 3 out of 5 of the requirements to get a chance at an interview; the degree is just one more I've gotta make up for, no different than not knowing Java.

>Networking and meetups won’t get you passed HR filters and corporate requirements.

This hasn't been my experience. Someone on the inside with pull has a lot more influence than HR, in my experience. It's very rare that we technical people approve a person and HR blocks them; the only cases I know the details of in my own experience have to do with serious (and obvious) lies turned up by the background check.

I mean, certainly, there are jobs that will bin my resume right off... and I'm sure there are some jobs that will bin my resume even with a good internal recommendation, (I could tell stories there, but they all have to do with trying to get work outside of the USA.) but my experience is that most places? A good internal advocate is worth a thousand pieces of paper from the university.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a technician who misleads is about as useful as a salesperson who can't deceive without crossing that line in the way that good salespeople can. A lot of the startup advice is fine if you are management-track, but if you are looking for individual contributor work, being honest and straightforward in ways that don't really work when you are management/sales is the order of the day. I've seen a lot of technicians fired for lying about a screwup (or because management thought they lied about a screwup) - I haven't seen many technicians get fired for actually screwing up.

Re: Big Tech’s Hot New Talent Incubator: Community College

#140

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 08, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

throwawayjava wrote: post #77

munin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teaching high school I looked into this in my state. Getting your foot in the door as a teacher in a public school would require someone with a PhD in say, mathematics, physics or computer science, to go back to grad school for a masters in education. Not sure that's an option, and is also ridiculous considering I just spent six years in grad school. You could do TFA as a backdoor, in many states, but that is proba…

Many states have backdoors that are regularly used to hire exceptional non-traditional candidates such as practicing Lawyers, experienced Engineers, and science/engineering PhDs (even PhDs in the humanities if the PhD is from a prestigious name). But you need to get your resume in front of the right people -- namely, folks in the central office (or maybe principals) who view your area as a strategic/difficult hiring…

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