Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

utahpolicy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 220 posts

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#191

Post by iamnotlarry »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #168
iamnotlarry wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a small U.S. town. There are not 10K people living within 25 miles of my house. While few here would admit to being rich, people who don't live here might see them as pretty well off. There is probably something close to 1 car per capita. That includes infants. If you throw in motorcycles, four-wheelers, tractors, loaders, golf carts, boats, jet skis, snowmobiles, personal fork-lifts, etc. we have to go wel…

I grew up in a town smaller than that. How many adults do not have a driver's license, which is acceptable id for voting?

I, for one, hope that a driver's license in not an acceptable ID for voting. It certainly is not sufficient to prove citizenship.

Perhaps you think we control for that as part of voter registration. We do not. I registered by walking into a post office, filling out a form, and handing the clerk some pocket change for a stamp.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#192

Post by tzs »

downandout wrote: post #145
slg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are thinking of this as a person who already has a government issued ID. If you don't drive and don't travel internationally there isn't much in life that would require you go acquire a government issued ID. If the only reason you need the ID is to vote, many people who don't already have an ID won't vote.

I’d love for you to explain how living life as an adult in the US without an ID is remotely close to possible for any reasonable length of time. Want a job? You need ID. Banks are obviosuly out, but so are prepaid reloadable cards. Live on cash only from an under-the-table job where you weren’t asked for ID? Fine, but where do you plan to live without ID? Even weekly motels require ID. The idea that a legal, eligible…

> The idea that a legal, eligible-to-vote US citizen is running around living life in 2018 without any form of ID is preposterous

That's possibly true, but also completely irrelevant to what we are discussing, because in most states the voter ID laws only accept a few specific kinds of ID. There are many legal, eligible-to-vote US citizens running around living life in 2018 without any of these specific kinds of ID.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#193

Post by apearson »

maxerickson wrote: post #175
oceanghost wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US there's really not any community of non-English speaking citizens Source? lol

What significant counterexample are you thinking of? A few thousand people here or there is a laughable threat to whatever culture exists in USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._communities_where...

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#194

Post by squirrelicus »

salawat wrote: post #183
squirrelicus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be reasonable to create a national ID card system and fund it through taxes. It could replace driver licenses and social security cards. I do not know why it would be unreasonable to require such a card for voting. It could also serve as a PKI system with the govt acting as a CA (i.e. manage issuance and revocation). There are non zero benefits. And this doesn't have to operate like a poll tax. I don…

The reason this hasn't been done is that historically it was taken as a given that the Federal Government were the last people you wanted to do something like that. The U.S. is a union of States each with different cultures, attitudes, histories, and needs. It was recognized early on that A STRONG Federal government given responsibility to do ANYTHING at a nationwide scale would quickly rustle jimmies as people would…

Right. If I had a tenth the hubris that 20th century authoritarian leaders of the USA had when they decided article 1 section 8 and the 14th amendmemt granted the federal government unlimited power (in spite of the 10th amendment), I would ignore this point. But it's always a valid one.

Pragmatically I'm not suggesting an expansion of federal power, since it already de facto has national identification power for both criminal purposes and entitlements in addition to statues regulating elections. This being said, I would support an amendment to make a tiny expansion to the census provision to support a federal indentification system because I believe the benefits far out weigh the costs.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#195

Post by maxerickson »

apearson wrote: post #193
maxerickson wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What significant counterexample are you thinking of? A few thousand people here or there is a laughable threat to whatever culture exists in USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._communities_where...

So first of all, the numbers on that page support my point without whinging over definitions.

But if you look at what I said, I didn't say anything about language spoken at home or primary language or anything like that, I explicitly said community of non-English speaking citizens, which pretty clearly means people that don't speak English anywhere.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#196

Post by tzs »

madhadron wrote: post #52
propman wrote: post #21

Paper ballots, no machines and especially no machines connected to the internet...if we were able to get that crazy bug into Iranian nuclear reactors without direct transfer from Internet, then you can bet North Korea, Russia, Israel, and China will pour billions to do the same thing. Voting ID cards too, though I admit I don’t know enough about that. Even if it costs billions to get it done, confidence in fair and f…

Replace voter ID cards with mail-in ballots and no in-person voting on a particular day.

Washington, Oregon, and Colorado have switched to by mail voting and it works fine.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#197

Post by Latteland »

slg wrote: post #128
mikejholly wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument seems like grasping me to. How would one function in society at all without an ID? Opening a bank account, cashing a check, driving a car, visiting a doctor, taking a train or plane, going to court. These are all activities which require ID. Sure, there is a tiny fraction of people who can't engage in those activities. But how likely is it that those folks are going to be voting, anyhow? I found this vi…

An ID certainly makes those things easier, but a government issued photo ID is not actually required for any of them. Like I said in my original comment, the only things that absolutely require an ID are international travel and driving. If you do neither of those, then you might not have an ID.

Based on ICE hassling poor people on buses, they'd like to check everyone's id on a bus.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#198

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

hueving wrote: post #134
erentz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The hysteria around double or fraudulent voting is crazy. You’d need thousands of people doing it in most districts to have any impact, and that would get obvious really bloody quickly. I think this is a pretty good example of what I find to be the typical of an American practice of cutting off their own nose to spite their face. [1] Americans absolutely hate the idea of freeloaders or someone getting somethin…

Double-voting is only one thing people are paranoid about. The other is the 12 million possible votes from undocumented (a.k.a illegal) immigrants.

Okay, but it's never been shown to be a problem in any meaningful way. Didn't Trump form a commission to investigate this after the election and then quietly dissolve it after they found nothing? Even the exaggerated reports I've seen from right-wing publications hyping up the threat of 'illegals voting' (ie. Heritage Foundation) detail absolutely paltry numbers of voter fraud(and there really aren't very many reports at all). And of the voter fraud they do detail, a very very small proportion is actually 'voter impersonation'.

I'd really love to see any evidence at all to the contrary.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#199

Post by downandout »

iamnotlarry wrote: post #189
downandout wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally, he owns two cars. If he drives them, he will rightfully be arrested. If he wants to bail out of jail after his arrest, the bondsman will require ID. No ID, and he sits there in jail until his case is heard several months down the line. With respect to your other claims, you seem to be of the belief that a Driver's License and an ID are necessarily the same thing. They are not. You can easily acquire an…

I was responding specifically to a claim that people without a car must be poor and on government support. That was followed by a question about how many adults don't have Driver's Licenses. To the first claim I responded with experience of people without cars who were not poor. To the second question I provided experience with people that don't have a Driver's License. To your statement, I will respond by letting yo…

Who said anything about being poor? Are you implying that only poor people use bondsman?

In this thread you’ve said that you only fly private and that your father has a personal driver. Congratulations to you/him on your success in life, but something tells me that both of you have ID if this is the case.

Re: Utah voting system fending off 1B hacking attempts per day

#200

Post by downandout »

pseudalopex wrote: post #131
mikejholly wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument seems like grasping me to. How would one function in society at all without an ID? Opening a bank account, cashing a check, driving a car, visiting a doctor, taking a train or plane, going to court. These are all activities which require ID. Sure, there is a tiny fraction of people who can't engage in those activities. But how likely is it that those folks are going to be voting, anyhow? I found this vi…

7% of US households don't have a bank account.[1] Many people live in walkable areas, carpool, or rely on transit. Visiting a doctor doesn't require ID. Taking a train or plane (or a bus) is easier with ID but possible without. [1] https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/

Visiting a doctor does take ID if you have insurance. Also, by federal law, picking up any prescriptions that a doctor writes requires ID, certainly at least for narcotic prescriptions.
Post reply on HN