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Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

cloud9trader.com

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Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#11

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

I do some algorithmic trading and automated investment in the crypto space. I trade intra-exchange and do arbitrage between pairs (tri-arb). I also occasionally rebalance into an index of coins I like. Note that I do this at a fairly small scale, so not sure if my answer really matters much. Although there are a lot of platforms for trading crypto, when it comes to arb, I found that you need to have control over a lo…

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Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#12
post #9

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

Most roll their own and use C / C++ / custom hardware for bare metal performance. Disclaimer: I've worked for two of the largest HFT firms in the US over the course of the past 11 years.

Note that algorithmic isn't just HFT.

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#13

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

I do some algorithmic trading and automated investment in the crypto space. I trade intra-exchange and do arbitrage between pairs (tri-arb). I also occasionally rebalance into an index of coins I like. Note that I do this at a fairly small scale, so not sure if my answer really matters much. Although there are a lot of platforms for trading crypto, when it comes to arb, I found that you need to have control over a lo…

Don't the fees negate the profitability of this strategy? How often do you see the spread between the rates achieving profitability when factoring in taker fees?

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#14

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

That depends on what you mean by "platform." Professional quantitative traders do not use services like this one. Virtually all of them - profitable and otherwise - work within firms that have separate teams for strategy research, strategy development, infrastructure, IT and internal software development. Typically there are sub-teams specializing in research and implementation (each) for risk management, execution,…

Most of those who actually have a non-trivial attempt at it think they're doing it because they're working with a large amount of data and doing "backtesting", but that's well below table stakes.

Can you define "table stakes" used here? The tone is a bit dismissive, but if there are individual investor doing algo trading with a few $100k and making some multiples of 10% gains annually, in bear and bull markets, seems like non a myth to me? Ie a couple of these people post here on occassion.

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#15
I have a question for those in the field - is there a good tool to fingerprint the level of algorithmic trading going on in a particular market? I trade in a lot of very obscure and illiquid stocks and in some I can spot obvious bot trading, but in others I see none.

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#16

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

Another question to who does algorithmic trading, is a software / engineering education with a strong math and data analysis useful to get into that? Do you have some particular resource where someone can start to approach it?

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#17

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

Yes, I roll my own.

I'm unique hybrid as I have a MBA (finance) before the great depression and because of the great depression I couldn't find a job. So I taught myself how to code (~2010) and have been working in code ever since, while still doing some algorithmic trading on the side.

I build custom trading systems on the side. Interactive Brokers is the only firm that I have found that has a good API. TD ameritrade seems to be starting in that direction. As for Trader9, well best of luck. For a little self promotion...

http://www.strategic-options.com/insight/the-best-and-worst-...

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#18
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on what you mean by "platform." Professional quantitative traders do not use services like this one. Virtually all of them - profitable and otherwise - work within firms that have separate teams for strategy research, strategy development, infrastructure, IT and internal software development. Typically there are sub-teams specializing in research and implementation (each) for risk management, execution,…

Most of those who actually have a non-trivial attempt at it think they're doing it because they're working with a large amount of data and doing "backtesting", but that's well below table stakes. Can you define "table stakes" used here? The tone is a bit dismissive, but if there are individual investor doing algo trading with a few $100k and making some multiples of 10% gains annually, in bear and bull markets, seems…

Before I answer your larger question, I'm going to outright contest this particular claim:

> a couple of these people post here on occassion.

I'd be frankly shocked if there are more than five people active on HN who are "doing algo trading with a few $100k and making some multiples of 10% gains annually, in bear and bull markets" on their own, with no outside capital. There might be folks automating some kind of trading that relies on fundamental financial analysis empowered by information asymmetry, but that's not really the same thing (though it's also hard). The implicit idea of "algorithmic trading" is that an automated trading strategy can capitalize on an (empirically true) hypothesis about the world. That means it should be consistent; automating certain deployment, execution and risk management processes isn't sufficient for algorithmic trading. That's just empowering the trading process with software. You can't really deduce a rigorously defensible and profitable trading algorithm just by filtering a giant amount of data through a backtesting engine.

As for the larger question, table stakes for a quantitative trading outfit is typically 1) a strategy research team that identifies and analyzes opportunities primarily via mathematical modeling, 2) a strategy implementation team that develops and deploys the algorithms which capitalize on those opportunities and 3) an infrastructure team that develops the internal research, data processing and trading platforms used by the former two teams. More abstractly, these are three separate functions (research, implementation and maintenance) spanning several core competencies (advanced math/theory, software engineering and reliability). Backtesting and whatever flavor of the week definition of "big data" are generally involved, but they're a relatively smaller part of a much larger engine in the context of quantitative trading. Backtesting in particular is extremely sophisticated and, in some ways, largely automated in the context of professional funds.

Theoretically one person (or a very small team) could be competent at each of those functions, especially if they're working with a relatively small amount of capital and targeting market inefficiencies that are too small, niche or illiquid to be productive and profitable for institutional trading. But that kind of individual almost certainly cut their teeth in an actual firm before going solo, and if they are working solo then they're doing way more than just finding useful data, using it to deduce a trading strategy and backtesting that trading strategy across historical data. It's comparatively easy to develop an algorithm that takes advantage of information asymmetry using a combination of domain knowledge, intuition and some untapped data source. But insofar as quantitative trading means something other than a marketing term, that's an insufficient level of modeling and an orthogonal use of data to satisfy the bar.

The other obstacle is that the stars kind of have to align in a very strange and particular way for someone to be not only competent enough, but incentivized enough to crank this entire Rube Goldberg machine on their own and with their own capital. Assuming their skills are generalizable, a hypothetical person who can be profitable while doing all research, implementation and infrastructure work on their own can likely pull down mid 7 - low 8 figures in annual compensation at a number of different hedge funds with much better career stability, financial security, personal risk and work life balance. If nothing else they could probably scale up and hire 10 or so others to found their own fund, and it would be strictly irrational not to (unless they're already capacity constrained, in which case they can't).

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#19

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

Yes, I roll my own. I'm unique hybrid as I have a MBA (finance) before the great depression and because of the great depression I couldn't find a job. So I taught myself how to code (~2010) and have been working in code ever since, while still doing some algorithmic trading on the side. I build custom trading systems on the side. Interactive Brokers is the only firm that I have found that has a good API. TD ameritrad…

What is your annual return rate since you started algorithmic trading?

Re: Cloud9Trader – Simple, powerful platform for algorithmic trading

#20

Anyone who does algorithmic trading, what platform do you use? Do you roll your own? I’ve had a passing interest in this field for years but have not done anything myself.

Yes, I roll my own. I'm unique hybrid as I have a MBA (finance) before the great depression and because of the great depression I couldn't find a job. So I taught myself how to code (~2010) and have been working in code ever since, while still doing some algorithmic trading on the side. I build custom trading systems on the side. Interactive Brokers is the only firm that I have found that has a good API. TD ameritrad…

>I have a MBA (finance) before the great depression and because of the great depression I couldn't find a job.

Since you've been alive for over 100 years, what's the key to a happy life?

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