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Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

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Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#191

Post by greggman »

ceejayoz wrote: post #99
Nullabillity wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can do positive things with Rekognition. [Citation needed]

[Citation provided] The NYT (and C-SPAN, apparently) uses it to identify members of Congress: https://open.nytimes.com/how-the-new-york-times-uses-softwar... Shutterfly is apparently using it for image categorization: http://ir.shutterfly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/...

I use Google Photo's image recognition all the time. I wish it was 1000x better but it's still amazing.

I uploaded about 120k photos including all my father's photos I had scanned. (about 4000)

I injured my toe when I was 10yrs old. Searched in my Google photos "toes". Found the picture pretty quickly. Have had similar success finding pictures of my childhood dogs. Can also search by people (face recognition).

It's still got a long way to go but I love it when it works.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#192

Post by wool_gather »

ma2rten wrote: post #131
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emo Phillips once made this joke: The other day a woman came up to me and said, "Didn't I see you on television?" I said, "I don't know. You can't see out the other way." Evidently Amazon has made that joke obsolete. Like Stallman, I'm so uncomfortable installing a listening device in my home like OK Google, Alexa, Siri, etc. It creeps me out on a visceral level unlike any other kind of snooping.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

Tech-literate people have a better understanding of what could go wrong. And that's even if they trust the creators: those of us who write code know how inevitable bugs are.

These devices are also black boxes. Your laptop, if you're technically literate, is largely an open book as far as what it's up to, should you care to investigate. Granted, your phone less so, but it's also pretty easy to corral if you want to. The entire point of the always-listening assistant is that it's always on, listening. It would be awfully silly to buy one and then unplug it whenever you're not actively talking to it.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#193

Post by wepple »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #125
wepple wrote: post #120

This is a terribly clickbait-y title for HN. Amazon is not tracking people, AWS has a service offered to anyone who wants it which would be useful for large scale surveillance. Facial recognition services are incredibly close to neutral technologies in my opinion. If we truly want to stop abuse of them, it should be done with legislation. Getting mad and ranty at one of the many offerings (which also includes open so…

> Facial recognition services are incredibly close to neutral technologies in my opinion. If we truly want to stop abuse of them, it should be done with legislation. You're entitled to that opinion. But it's just your opinion. What I like to ask myself is: given that we know we had a corrupt individual in the highest office of the US government in the last 50 years (i.e. Nixon), how might that have turned out with ea…

yeah I think I agree, we should look at potential negative use cases of new technology to society.

I just think that positioning it as Amazon or Google or whoever doing a bad thing is misdirection. OPs article even seems to end up coming to a conclusion of needing policy to keep this under control. Someone will supply it to law enforcement, so it’s use more than its supply should be regulated because it does have myriad positive use cases also.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#194

Post by PedroBatista »

ma2rten wrote: post #131
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emo Phillips once made this joke: The other day a woman came up to me and said, "Didn't I see you on television?" I said, "I don't know. You can't see out the other way." Evidently Amazon has made that joke obsolete. Like Stallman, I'm so uncomfortable installing a listening device in my home like OK Google, Alexa, Siri, etc. It creeps me out on a visceral level unlike any other kind of snooping.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

I don't think you're "tech-literate", seems like you just drank the Kool-aid and sleep well at night.

You used the word "Theoretically" like it's something so remote that's almost impossible which is both dangerously and hilariously not true.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#195

Post by thudrs »

andrepd wrote: post #180
ma2rten wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

>As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. HAH. Says who?? Are you seriously going to trust companies with a terrible track record and every incentive to do this, are you going to trust them not to use their always on listening device to listen to you? I swear I don't say this to derail the conversation but I literally cannot fathom in my head…

It is in the hardware. You can take one apart and see for yourself. These devices will not activate unless they at least think they hear the hotword. Once activated though, nothing is stopping them from staying on. Although Im sure you can just watch their internet traffic to prove if its listening in the moment.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#196

Post by ma2rten »

andrepd wrote: post #180
ma2rten wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

>As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. HAH. Says who?? Are you seriously going to trust companies with a terrible track record and every incentive to do this, are you going to trust them not to use their always on listening device to listen to you? I swear I don't say this to derail the conversation but I literally cannot fathom in my head…

I understand your point of view if you distrust all Android devices, iPhones and MacBooks. However, most people who say they would never use a smart speaker, happily use their laptop or smart-phone without thinking twice.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#197

Post by ploxiln »

throwawaymath wrote: post #188
ploxiln wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers are right to be scared of these voice assistants. The problem is that typical sloppy, glitchy software (and hardware) is poised to record your voice and send it somewhere at any time, and that somewhere will play or record this, because that's what all this stuff more-or-less setup to do. It's already happened! Alexas have already "butt dialed" other people (not just amazon's servers)! Think a bit…

> Research has shown how it is possible to play voice assistant commands that humans can't hear. Do you mind linking to the research you're thinking about?

Sure, good idea: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1708.09537.pdf

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#198

Post by darawk »

danShumway wrote: post #159
darawk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anonymity doesn't stand on its own. The right to anonymity is only important because it protects other rights. If we're not trying to preserve people's ability to express ideas that the government dislikes, then who cares if their identity is public? The same is true of speech. It is a right that exists to protect other rights. Speaking, in and of itself is nice, but the function that right serves is the circumscri…

Again, I don't think that anonymity is a fundamental right - although if it was, you would be correct and I would agree with you. In fact, that theoretical right I don't believe in would be so distinct from freedom of speech that it might even be in opposition to it ( cough right to be forgotten cough ) ;). Anonymity is an implementation detail. At the moment, it is an implementation detail that is essential. If your…

> But for all its warts and problems, if anyone wants to get rid of anonymity, then it's their job to come up with an alternative implementation. Part of supporting free speech is figuring out how to practically guarantee it in the real world, the rest is just wishful thinking.

I used to agree with this religiously. But now i'm not so sure. Anonymous speech is great for countering authoritarian regimes. It's great in China, Russia, North Korea. But those countries don't have freedom of speech in the first place. I'm all for anonymity technology there.

But in places that do have freedom of speech, what does anonymous speech really do for you? It seems to me that it mostly induces polarization. It encourages a certain kind of Overton-window stretching that has so far proved mostly toxic. I can't think of any examples to the contrary at the moment, though i'm sure a few must exist.

> Quick side note, but this is a very narrow reading of free speech that I expect many people would disagree with. The function of free speech is to facilitate a person's fundamental right to share and explore ideas. Limiting the power of the government is a means to that end, not the other way around.

Ok, yes, in a certain sense that is true. I don't mean "the reason people ought to be allowed to speak". But moreso, "the reason we ought to enshrine free speech in a constitution, making it especially difficult for even our democratic government to alter or amend". I think the reason you want the latter is because in a democracy, an informed public is essential. If the government has the power to limit speech, they have the power to reshape voting behavior in their own image, which short-circuits the meaning of democracy.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#199

Post by mercer »

thudrs wrote: post #195
andrepd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. HAH. Says who?? Are you seriously going to trust companies with a terrible track record and every incentive to do this, are you going to trust them not to use their always on listening device to listen to you? I swear I don't say this to derail the conversation but I literally cannot fathom in my head…

It is in the hardware. You can take one apart and see for yourself. These devices will not activate unless they at least think they hear the hotword. Once activated though, nothing is stopping them from staying on. Although Im sure you can just watch their internet traffic to prove if its listening in the moment.

You'd have to do that 24/7 though, if I understand correctly, because these devices can be updated at will.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#200

Post by mercer »

wavefunction wrote: post #135
sedachv wrote: post #116

> When most people think of the tech giant Amazon, they think of an innovative, consumer-friendly company responsible for affordable deliveries. This is one of those instances where I say to myself, "I wish I had listened to Richard Stallman X years ago": https://stallman.org/amazon.html

I definitely don't think that silly simplistic take on Amazon. Jeff Bezos sounds like a psychopath from his public profiles. He has the right to run his firm as he sees fit of course but never have I considered Amazon to be 'benign.'

why does he have that right?
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