Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#171

Post by TulliusCicero » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #151

ma2rten wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

It's not that I think Amazon et al are listening. It's that that could, or someone who seizes control in an "emergency" could, or someone with "legal authority" could order it.

How is that different from a smartphone or laptop or any other device with a microphone?

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#172

Post by Vinnl » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 9:26 AM UTC

ma2rten wrote: post #131

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emo Phillips once made this joke: The other day a woman came up to me and said, "Didn't I see you on television?" I said, "I don't know. You can't see out the other way." Evidently Amazon has made that joke obsolete. Like Stallman, I'm so uncomfortable installing a listening device in my home like OK Google, Alexa, Siri, etc. It creeps me out on a visceral level unlike any other kind of snooping.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

> I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that.

Or at least: the ones with a smartphone. What makes this different?

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#173

Post by mattnewton » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 9:56 AM UTC

ma2rten wrote: post #131

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emo Phillips once made this joke: The other day a woman came up to me and said, "Didn't I see you on television?" I said, "I don't know. You can't see out the other way." Evidently Amazon has made that joke obsolete. Like Stallman, I'm so uncomfortable installing a listening device in my home like OK Google, Alexa, Siri, etc. It creeps me out on a visceral level unlike any other kind of snooping.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

Tech literate people know how hard this is to do securely and without bugs. There have already been massive bugs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/05/24...

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#174

Post by quikoa » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 11:03 AM UTC

maccard wrote: post #169

13of40 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something kind of eye-opening for me was that I recently found an Android setting to make my phone (a OnePlus 5T) vibrate whenever any app requests location data, and even with location access denied to everything, it still vibrates about once every ten or fifteen minutes. As an end user I'm helpless to know whether it's a normal function of the OS, or if I have malware, or if it's Google, or OnePlus, or the Chinese.…

IMO this is a failing of Android that should be dealt with immediately. iOS has had a big red bar across the top of the screen for years when location or microphone is being accessed.

Google relies for a great deal on advertising and gathering user data, unlike Apple. On top of that they don't have tight control over who sells Android devices, nor do they appear interested in doing so. Sadly it doesn't look like they're interested in delivering better data protection for their users.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#175

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 11:16 AM UTC

oculusthrift wrote: post #122

Not a fan of Amazon but this article is directly sponsored by the koch brothers. kind of weird we have transparently political articles like this yet others are banned.

Noted, and I'm very much notafan of Cato or the Kochs.

(Or, for that matter, Amazon.)

Regardless, the issue is real and concerning.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#176

Post by yayana » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 11:28 AM UTC

quikoa wrote: post #174

maccard wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO this is a failing of Android that should be dealt with immediately. iOS has had a big red bar across the top of the screen for years when location or microphone is being accessed.

Google relies for a great deal on advertising and gathering user data, unlike Apple. On top of that they don't have tight control over who sells Android devices, nor do they appear interested in doing so. Sadly it doesn't look like they're interested in delivering better data protection for their users.

Google sells their own phones and could introduce hardware driven indicators next to the camera and microphones for when they are on if their goal was not to be evil.

It is a general problem that no one makes strong claims about indicators, so making a software driven camera led is not bad for a manufacturer's reputation.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#177

Post by mvanbaak » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 11:32 AM UTC

No, Amazon isn't! It's the company/government/whatever that implements a service Amazon is offering to everyone.

All it takes you to do the same is create an AWS account, fill in some info so they can bill you for the services you use, a bit of code and some camera's.

I know it's very popular these days to quickly blame it on the big tech names, and yes they are doing a lot of shady things, but articles like this are simply name calling and not explaining how things really work.

Besides that, this technology is not new. Xovis camera's for example have this ability build in for a long time already. Those camera's are installed in a lot of public places like shopping malls, railway stations, airports etc and they are used to track you. Just because Amazon made a scalable central version of this doesn't make them track you.

People who write articles like this should do some research first ...

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#178

Post by andrepd » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

sedachv wrote: post #116

> When most people think of the tech giant Amazon, they think of an innovative, consumer-friendly company responsible for affordable deliveries. This is one of those instances where I say to myself, "I wish I had listened to Richard Stallman X years ago": https://stallman.org/amazon.html

Hundreds of very good reasons to fight Amazon's growth as much as possible. We are sacrificing our rights, hurting our society, pushing people to near-slavery for 2 day shipping. It's disgraceful.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#179

Post by kasey_junk » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

tajen wrote: post #148

eli wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t apply if you aren’t standing in the EU

GDPR applies if you are a European citizen visiting a website while on holiday in USA, for example. It doesn’t seem to me that GDPR stops when crossing a border. Which is why it has so much worldwide reach.

That is not a commonly held interpretation of the law, especially if the entities collecting & processing the data are not in the EU.

Re: Yes, Amazon Is Tracking People

#180

Post by andrepd » Sat, Jul 07, 2018, 12:14 PM UTC

ma2rten wrote: post #131

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emo Phillips once made this joke: The other day a woman came up to me and said, "Didn't I see you on television?" I said, "I don't know. You can't see out the other way." Evidently Amazon has made that joke obsolete. Like Stallman, I'm so uncomfortable installing a listening device in my home like OK Google, Alexa, Siri, etc. It creeps me out on a visceral level unlike any other kind of snooping.

I don't understand why so many tech-literate people have an issue with that. As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword. The hotword detection has to be done on the device itself for technical reasons (battery and data usage). Theoretically it's possible that the companies that build those devices lie and actually record you other times. But the…

>As I am sure you know, those devices only record your voice and send it to the server when they hear their hotword.

HAH. Says who?? Are you seriously going to trust companies with a terrible track record and every incentive to do this, are you going to trust them not to use their always on listening device to listen to you? I swear I don't say this to derail the conversation but I literally cannot fathom in my head how you can think like that unless you're a paid shill.