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Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

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Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#221

Post by timr »

jogjayr wrote: post #140
timr wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job growth is a good thing only if it benefits the people who live in a place before said growth occurs. Otherwise, you're incentivized to just keep shifting high-paid populations around and calling it success.

> Job growth is a good thing only if it benefits the people who live in a place before said growth occurs Why so? Even if high-paid populations are being shifted around, it's better for the region as a whole to have more highly-paid people. They'll spend more and pay more in taxes (sales, property, income). The pre-existing population presumably owns property, whose value has increased now because it's close to high-…

"Even if high-paid populations are being shifted around, it's better for the region as a whole to have more highly-paid people."

No, that's not at all axiomatic. Consider a place like Aspen: formerly a small mountain town, now an enclave of incredibly wealthy people. People who support the area have to make a treacherous daily commute from nearby towns, because none can afford to live in the area.

Sure, some people become wealthy from owning land in Aspen before it became famous. Most residents did not.

If all you focus on is tax revenue, median income, etc., everything looks peachy, but that's a myopic view. One can easily argue the same thing is happening in San Francisco.

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#222

Post by d0lph »

kozikow wrote: post #219
d0lph wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US did the same, revolted against a well armed adversary. The people are the power, paper money is no match.

The revolting side was well armed as well. It's not the case in Saudi Arabia.

Can you cite something for this? Everything I read is to the contrary, that they are well armed.

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#223

Post by [deleted] »

lobotryas wrote: post #212
maxsilver wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no economist. But I think it has something to do with how we used to grow in ways that didn't monopolize people's needs. (better equipment, better networks, new consumer products, holiday travel, toys, fashion, etc). But now our growth is mostly in ways that do monopolize people's needs (healthcare, housing, childcare, education, transportation). If you evaluate the last 30 years using, for example, TV's or telep…

No one has a right to keep living somewhere if they are being priced out. The only exception I can think of are unconscionable rent increases and that's largely beside the point. Just because the previous population can no longer afford to live in SF or many parts of the Bay does not mean we have a problem or someone's rights are being violated.

[deleted]

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#224

Post by [deleted] »

nerfhammer wrote: post #206
maxsilver wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no economist. But I think it has something to do with how we used to grow in ways that didn't monopolize people's needs. (better equipment, better networks, new consumer products, holiday travel, toys, fashion, etc). But now our growth is mostly in ways that do monopolize people's needs (healthcare, housing, childcare, education, transportation). If you evaluate the last 30 years using, for example, TV's or telep…

Well, I have a degree in economics. IMO housing is expensive because of an explosion of land use restrictions in recent decades, which as far as I can tell is a cultural development. Housing had always been market based prior to that.

[deleted]

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#225

Post by joejerryronnie »

Kalium wrote: post #214
lobotryas wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many good points. Also whenever I talk to "just build more" advocates, few demonstrate they thought about scaling infrastructure. Traffic is steadily getting worse, grocery lines are getting longer and classroom sizes keep growing. I really wish these two things were bound together.

Repealing prop 13 would do a lot to bind together building housing and funding for transit and schools.

Repealing prop 13 is never going to happen for a variety of reasons, so it would probably be better to focus on areas where progress can be made. Also SF does not equal the Bay Area. I almost never consider policies from the standpoint of SF alone as it is a relatively small yet intense part of the overall region. Many issues experienced by SF residents are very different from those experienced by the rest of the Bay Area. Granted, there is certainly overlap and some things we see in SF now will be coming to other cities in the future but you have to be careful not to fall into the 'SF as the center of the universe' trap (especially on HN).

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#226

Post by jdietrich »

lobotryas wrote: post #215
jdietrich wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim sticks in the throat of a lot of Europeans, because of the visible level of inequality in the US. We see many of your citizens suffering in ways that simply wouldn't happen in our countries; we struggle to find a charitable way of reconciling that with the claim that America is the best country. If you're the richest and most powerful nation in history, why do you have the highest incarceration rate in the…

If there was a European nation of comparable size and diversity (class, race, history, etc) as America then these Europeans would have a point. I just roll my eyes when I read points like infant mortality, gun violence, literacy, etc are better in some European countries than the US (and thus, by proxy, said European country is better than the US) because we're comparing apples and oranges. I'll echo GP's statement.…

Let's take infant mortality. The EU average (4 per 1000) is lower than the US average (5.8 per 1000). The EU has a population of 508 million, versus 325 million Americans.

Four of the 28 EU member states have a higher rate of infant mortality than the US average - Croatia (9.3), Romania (9.4), Bulgaria (8.4) and Cyprus (7.9). The first three are ex-communist countries and have only been democracies since the early 1990s.

25% of the Croatian economy was destroyed in the Croatian War of Independence of 1991 to 1995; it still has a number of active minefields. Romania was utterly brutalised by the Ceaușescu regime until 1989; you may dimly remember the horror of Ceaușescu's orphanages. If you don't, I suggest you steel yourself and have a stiff drink before Googling it. Bulgaria has a GDP per capita of just over $8,000 - a quarter of the GDP per capita of the poorest US state.

Cyprus suffered a coup d'etat by Greece and an invasion by Turkey in 1974, creating a lasting political division. There was a wall separating the Greek and Turkish sides of the island until 2007 and UN peacekeepers still maintain a demilitarized buffer zone.

That's what we're dealing with in the EU. Those are our excuses. What are yours?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#227

Post by Kalium »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #225
Kalium wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repealing prop 13 would do a lot to bind together building housing and funding for transit and schools.

Repealing prop 13 is never going to happen for a variety of reasons, so it would probably be better to focus on areas where progress can be made. Also SF does not equal the Bay Area. I almost never consider policies from the standpoint of SF alone as it is a relatively small yet intense part of the overall region. Many issues experienced by SF residents are very different from those experienced by the rest of the Bay…

True! You're absolutely right on all counts.

With that said, prop 13 has wreaked havoc on budgets all across California. School funding is a state-wide problem. And I would go so far as to say that the whole of the Bay Area experiences a housing shortage for what is mostly the same set of reasons.

So while you're right, there may be some commonalities to be found.

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#228

Post by RestlessMind »

mc32 wrote: post #171
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True that, for China. When I visited China, Beijing / Shanghai felt safer than San Francisco, especially when walking at the night.

I agree it may “feel” safer, but a lot of that, in my experience, comes down to not knowing what you don’t know about a place. For example, I would say, “oh, yeah, such and such place seems alright, not bad, I walked around and felt fine.” Locals would say something like, what, that’s nuts, we don’t go there unless we’re looking to get knifed, stay away from that area, it’s trouble”. Now, I also know that locals are…

What you are saying is true in general, but I experienced both sets of places as a tourist. So for me, "not knowing what you don't know" applied to both sets of places.

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#229

Post by r4ltman »

d0lph wrote: post #145
rgrieselhuber wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of many reasons that McLuhan attributed text-based media to symptoms of civilizations already in decline.

Has there ever been society without text based media?

Asia, those are ideograms

Re: Things That Happen in Silicon Valley and Also the Soviet Union

#230

Post by toomanybeersies »

d0lph wrote: post #182
toomanybeersies wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument is that the USA is a democracy (at least more so than the others), and therefore it's fair to criticise the USA as a whole (i.e. the citizens of the USA) for the failures of the US Government. A friend of mine made the same comment recently in regards to condemning human rights abuses in Israel. You can condemn until your face is blue the human rights violations in Iran, but there's not a lot the…

Iranians can revolt, most huge social changes requires revolt. Government is a result of the people, if the majority were not ok with it I think it would not last long. To me this implies on some level that the people of the country like their government.

How well is that working out for Syria and Libya at the moment?

The whole concept of a dictatorship is that the ruling party has more power and can keep the people subjugated. The civilian populace don't have tanks and helicopters.

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