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The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

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Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#21
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

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Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#22
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

And, to add insult to injury: the ones paying 3000 a year in taxes rather than 30k, are the ones who made millions of dollars in equity off the gain. That's extremely Regressive and completely the opposite of what CA supposedly stands for: Progressive income taxes.

What I don't understand is why they can pocket that appreciation. When you sell the taxman should come knocking for all the abatements you've received over the years.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#23
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

Wouldn't it make sense to have higher taxes on old people? They have more significant money and wealth I believe.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#24
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

There's a third option which is encouraging people to move elsewhere.

There is likely some truth to this as it encourages new housing stock to be built. I also suspect that it does lead to a more sustainable long term growth that's less likely to have major sell offs since owners will hold onto their property to maintain their tax advantage. I openly wonder if this is the reason that California housing, particularly in the Bay Area, did not implode during the dotcom bubble.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#25
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

Wouldn't it make sense to have higher taxes on old people? They have more significant money and wealth I believe.

Wouldn't it make sense to have higher taxes on tech workers? They have more significant money and wealth I believe.

If you want to tax wealth or income just do it directly.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#26
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

Wouldn't it make sense to have higher taxes on old people? They have more significant money and wealth I believe.

it should absolutely not be based on age ... some old people are quite poor, while some young people are quite wealthy.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#27
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

It's not just SV that has similiar stuff to Prop 13, most places do so. If not, the locals will simply have to pack up and move just because their property value went up which can be quite disruptive. I personally think it's fair. You shouldn't be forced to move out of a city you are rooted in where you have family and friends. Imagine getting old and deciding you wish to downsize to a smaller house because all the kids are grown. Do you want to start over in a new city when you are now replying on retirement income and are old? Of course not. That's what Prop 13 tries to stop. I don't consider it entitlement, it sucks to not be at the receiving end, but hey that's the gain for being their first.

BTW, I don't live in the Bay area and never have. I live in Detroit area and we have this same rubbish and I've had to pay 3x property tax of folks who own 5x the value of my property. It sucks but I understand.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#28
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

And, to add insult to injury: the ones paying 3000 a year in taxes rather than 30k, are the ones who made millions of dollars in equity off the gain. That's extremely Regressive and completely the opposite of what CA supposedly stands for: Progressive income taxes.

That is a fascinating point that is obvious but until you said it outloud it hadn't crystallized for me.

The problem for the retirees is quite often they have a fixed income - solution to "unlock" that equity is maybe it's held as a liability against the equity @ the eventual sale price.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#29
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some extra color on Prop 13; a more sinister view is that it was a time bomb designed to "starve the beast" and limit tax revenues in the future.

California doesn't seem very interested in starving the beast overall. So it seems unlikely the motivation of this prop was that.

If that was the prevailing opinion, and your goal was to limit tax revenue, you would need to get creative and Prop 13 is just that.

Re: The Bay Area’s tech boom in historical and social context

#30
post #21
post #12

The principal issue, full stop, in the Bay Area and most of California is housing. There are two solutions to this: 1) Build more. But this is outrageously difficult due to a well-meaning political view of safety / fairness / etc. These restrictions employ an awful lot of bureaucrats for enforcement but add $10s of thousands in fees and delays for builders, that are IRR driven and would rather concentrate their effor…

[flagged]

> Ending Prop. 13 will not solve anything. If more people want to live here they need to build more housing. You instead proposing to kick out people who already live here just because they cannot afford to pay much higher taxes. Sounds pretty close to genocide to me.

Uh, no, that's nowhere close to genocide.

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