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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

niemanlab.org

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Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#491
post #81
post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

I actually have a speech impairment (a stutter) and you’d think people would be willing to accommodate. I can speak just fine when I have complete agency over the words I choose to say, but it’s the absolute worst when I have to read out some long specific access code or account number and say it 100% correct. Stutter even once and they think I meant 2 P’s when I just wanted to say a single P. And then it becomes thi…

The symptoms you describe are what someone I know experiences. In the same situation of making a phone call, he give the handset to his wife. What's pathetic is that the operator insists on talking to him "in person" even if he sits next to her. Some of these trained operators apply their company rules to the letter so much that it feels almost barbaric.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#492
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As guilty as saying "I can only pay $X" or "$X is my final offer" when buying or selling a car despite knowing it's a negotiation tactic and not a real limitation.

Incidentally the price tag was invented by Quakers who considered haggling immoral. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag#History

That is fascinating, thanks for sharing.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like having a bit of fun with cancellations once I catch on that they're not gonna make it easy. "Please cancel my service" "We'd like to retain your business is there anything we can do?" "Is my service cancelled yet?" "Why are you cancelling your service?" "My service is still working, can you cancel it? Is this the cancellation department? Who will be cancelling my service?" Just pretend like I didn't hear anyth…

"Meeting retention rates is their problem, not mine." Do you also maliciously fill out surveys with less than "excellent" ratings even after you are told that constitutes failure according to corporate management? I understand the attitude of refusing to play the game, but that doesn't justify making things worse for other victims.

I fail to understand how repeatedly asking someone to cancel my service is being malicious, beyond depriving the company of the revenue they'd benefit had my membership continued.

It's not my job to go out of my way to help these folks meet their retention KPI. Categorically, full-stop and quite literally, that is not my responsibility. I'm a customer who used to pay money for a service, not a call-taker responsible for meeting certain metrics. I don't work for the cable company. I'm not their employee. I'm their customer.

If I don't want to be a member anymore, and I state as such, and repeatedly state as such when said company makes it as difficult as possible to cancel my membership-then I've satisfied my end of that particular transaction. I've stated my business request, I'm asking them in various manners to please honor that request. Where is the malice? If you want to point out that it's probably immature, then I'll probably agree with you. Comparing it to deliberately trying to tank a call-taker though by giving a deceitful and dishonest review I think is an incredible exercise in reaching.

So can you explain this for me? How are you drawing a parallel from me repeating my request to have my service cancelled with maliciously filling out customer response surveys in such a way that deliberately gives the call-taker a negative score?

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#494
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have a speech impairment (a stutter) and you’d think people would be willing to accommodate. I can speak just fine when I have complete agency over the words I choose to say, but it’s the absolute worst when I have to read out some long specific access code or account number and say it 100% correct. Stutter even once and they think I meant 2 P’s when I just wanted to say a single P. And then it becomes thi…

The symptoms you describe are what someone I know experiences. In the same situation of making a phone call, he give the handset to his wife. What's pathetic is that the operator insists on talking to him "in person" even if he sits next to her. Some of these trained operators apply their company rules to the letter so much that it feels almost barbaric.

Why blame the operators for management's barbaric rules?

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just sending a notification of cancellation by snail mail?

Finding a stamp and a post office box is significantly more annoying than two emails.

Surely there are web business that print and mail documents for you.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#496
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite what we teach small children, lying is not immoral. Lying is amoral . The circumstance and motivation of a lie determine whether that particular lie is moral or immoral. There are times when it's moral to lie, other times when it's immoral to lie, and still other times when morality hardly has anything to do with it at all (such as the above scenario.) We tell small children that it's immoral to lie because w…

I don't think people grow out of the need to follow moral rules as much as you imply. Sooner or later, there comes a time when it is overwhelmingly in a person's interest to lie (or some other transgression). If they are purely rational, they will do it. If they think deeply about morality, they will rationalize why it is right to do what is in their interest. The point of inculcating honesty and other virtues is so…

Lying isn't bad. Hurting people is bad. There are many totally honest ways of hurting someone.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#497
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of Kant’s Axe ... Is it ever morally acceptable to tell a lie? Kant thought not. His example of the would-be murderer explains his reasoning. Read by Harry Shearer. Scripted by Nigel Warburton. https://youtu.be/x_uUEaeqFog

Thankfully most people have more sense than Kant. In truth, I doubt Kant himself would be so hardline if he were actually put to the test in such a scenario. Talk is cheap, would he actually be so depraved in practice? I can't rule it out, but I doubt it.

Kant's philosophy is universal, not individual. His morality (and many others!) accepts that people may becomes martyrs.

Should you kill a person to save two? Kill two to save one? Does matter who the people involved are? Anti-Kantian philosophies don't have good consistent answers to this -- at least they don't live according to their philosophical answers.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#498
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking people working in call centre, or that deal with client all day long, like the NATO alphabet, especially people that have to deal with random code, or need to get names spelled right. People that I know worked in call centre love it, and carry on using it decades after they left that job. It seems a bit more tedious, but the slower pace with reduced ambiguity means you almost never have to repeat y…

My name has an unusual spelling, so I always have to spell it on the phone. I've had issues every time I try to use the NATO alphabet for this, because several of the phonetics are names. E.g. someone named Matt might say: "Matt, spelled Mike-Alpha-Tango-Tango" And get the response: "Ok Mike, now I need..."

I overheard a co-worker once trying to spell out a mailing list address to a customer using a NATO-like alphabet, but he began, "M as in Mary, L as in Larry..."

We ribbed him pretty good for that. I even created my own Completely Useless Alphabet from that incident:

A as in Aerie

B as in Barry

C as in Carrie

D as in Dairy

etc.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#499
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have enough exposure to the product (not available in my region) but I really liked the _idea_ of privacy.com where you can create a credit card proxy for every subscription you have. This seems extremely valuable for managing subscriptions, tracking your funds, and of course, some modicum of privacy where your original credit card is only shared with one party. edit: Seems like privacy.com is a direct-to-ban…

CapitalOne offers the same service on their credit cards with a browser plugin. It also disallows charges to the virtual card numbers from any source other than the site it's associated with.

I wonder what else their browser plugin does, behind the scenes... :-/

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. They had me sign over my direct withdrawal banking details the day I signed up. I regret doing that.

Can you not cancel? In the UK its a matter of logging into the bank and pressing "cancel" on the list of direct debits. Not only that but any mistaken withdrawal is refunded.

>Can you not cancel?

If I cancelled without formally ending our contract (with their demanded appointment in order to cancel)... they would have dinged my credit score with a complaint of non-payment for an agreed upon contract.

I wish I was joking.

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