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Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

gavinkellyblog.com

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Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#11

Post by Wildgoose »

bogle wrote: post #9
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way of avoiding any exams or interviews is to have your child start at a private school at nursery level - it's only if you transfer in later that they do the interviews/exams (NB not all public schools work like that though). Mind you my son transferred between private schools at age 16 and the interview was mainly about rugby... [NB Both my wife and I went to very humble state schools but we could afford privat…

Your own experience may be of better quality teaching in the private schools but that's not borne out by the evidence, what little there is. For reference, there's the recent publication of "Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain" by Robert Verkaik, which explicitly states there is no demonstrably better teaching. My own personal experience is of State, Grammar (selective) and Private. It's all about…

Intake is key. I positively hated school through to 16 when I then went to a separate Sixth Form College to do my A-Levels - and suddenly all the knobheads were gone and I could actually enjoy myself for the first time.

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#12

Post by pjc50 »

Wildgoose wrote: post #10
pjc50 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If grammar (you spelt this incorrectly) schools were effective at improving society as a whole, you'd be able to measure an effect in the places in the UK where they were retained. Especially Northern Ireland. Instead you have to address what happens to the 50% of people who don't get into the selective schools. You can't improve overall quality through rejecting students, because there's no "away" to reject them to!…

I find it interesting that the non-Grammar "comprehensive/secondary modern" schools in areas with Grammar Schools actually perform better than Comprehensive schools (such as the one I attended) in areas where Grammar Schools have been abolished. Does this mean that such schools apply more focus to issues such as the ones you list in order to better compete?

Possibly. The key issue is the politics; selective public schooling allows the schools to be treated unequally by the resource allocation system, where the one with the worse performing pupils gets less resources and is less preferred by staff, reinforcing the cycle.

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#13

Post by throwaway426079 »

pjc50 wrote: post #12
Wildgoose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that the non-Grammar "comprehensive/secondary modern" schools in areas with Grammar Schools actually perform better than Comprehensive schools (such as the one I attended) in areas where Grammar Schools have been abolished. Does this mean that such schools apply more focus to issues such as the ones you list in order to better compete?

Possibly. The key issue is the politics; selective public schooling allows the schools to be treated unequally by the resource allocation system, where the one with the worse performing pupils gets less resources and is less preferred by staff, reinforcing the cycle.

If I understood correctly, you are taking the opposite view from the parent post?

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#14

Post by [deleted] »

bogle wrote: post #9
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way of avoiding any exams or interviews is to have your child start at a private school at nursery level - it's only if you transfer in later that they do the interviews/exams (NB not all public schools work like that though). Mind you my son transferred between private schools at age 16 and the interview was mainly about rugby... [NB Both my wife and I went to very humble state schools but we could afford privat…

Your own experience may be of better quality teaching in the private schools but that's not borne out by the evidence, what little there is. For reference, there's the recent publication of "Posh Boys: How the English Public Schools Ruin Britain" by Robert Verkaik, which explicitly states there is no demonstrably better teaching. My own personal experience is of State, Grammar (selective) and Private. It's all about…

[deleted]

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#15

Post by easytiger »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #3

It's just really difficult to understand what this means. The first big caveat is that 1990s to 2010s stops at the financial crisis. Due to austerity the UK has since then seen the greatest period of wage stagnation of all the advanced nations except Greece. But employment has remained high. So whilst the report is a picture of time before the crash its not clear to me what has happened since. Second - Yes I think I…

> 25-34 year olds its gone from 65% to 27% during the period of this study

back then people used to be in full time work from 16-21. Education has assumed the role work once had. Most people I know are in Education untill mid to late 20s. 1/15 into their 30ies on and off. further to that 100 years ago home ownership was in the 15% area. Standards of living where "worse" by modern metrics (of course that's not true per se IMHO).

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#17

Post by jl6 »

zucchini_head wrote: post #4

The article doesn't touch upon education much at all, which I believe is a central part of social (im)mobility. Problems arising in society later on will simply stem from the early life of members of society, not afterwards. It's a common principle that education is the key to societal equality, in some way. All I can offer is my story on this. I've lived in the UK all my life in all sorts of regions from those of lo…

It’s also worth mentioning “selection by postcode”. My daughter goes to a state school but our area is comparatively wealthy, so the intake is biased towards wealthy families.

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#18

Post by steffandroid »

seanhandley wrote: post #16

Gavin Kelly is associated with Downing Street. It's in the conservative government's interest to downplay social issues caused by its policies. I smell a conflict of interest.

He worked at Downing Street until 2010, under the Labour government at the time.

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#19

Post by isostatic »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #3

It's just really difficult to understand what this means. The first big caveat is that 1990s to 2010s stops at the financial crisis. Due to austerity the UK has since then seen the greatest period of wage stagnation of all the advanced nations except Greece. But employment has remained high. So whilst the report is a picture of time before the crash its not clear to me what has happened since. Second - Yes I think I…

Old Rich people like to point to income as a definition of "rich". They say "I'm poor", despite someone on £70k/year being unable to afford their lifestyle because of housing

It helps keep the taxation on the workers, not on the leachers

Re: Income mobility has been rising fastest in Britain

#20

Post by isostatic »

arethuza wrote: post #6
zucchini_head wrote: post #4

The article doesn't touch upon education much at all, which I believe is a central part of social (im)mobility. Problems arising in society later on will simply stem from the early life of members of society, not afterwards. It's a common principle that education is the key to societal equality, in some way. All I can offer is my story on this. I've lived in the UK all my life in all sorts of regions from those of lo…

One way of avoiding any exams or interviews is to have your child start at a private school at nursery level - it's only if you transfer in later that they do the interviews/exams (NB not all public schools work like that though). Mind you my son transferred between private schools at age 16 and the interview was mainly about rugby... [NB Both my wife and I went to very humble state schools but we could afford privat…

I went to private school for a couple of years from age 9 to 11, we all had to take and pass the exam to get into the senior division
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