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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

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Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#471

Post by inetknght »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #366
fragsworth wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. You tell the credit card company that you 1) tried to cancel, and they wouldn't do it; and 2) you did not get any service from them since you tried to cancel. They have to pay you back AND THEY GET CHARGED an additional $20-$30 that your credit card company takes from them as punishment. Please don't abuse chargebacks unless the merchant deserves it, though.

>The best thing to do is issue a chargeback. They had me sign over my direct withdrawal banking details the day I signed up. I regret doing that.

There are companies that provide discounts if you provide direct debit information. Something tells me this is related.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#472

Post by perl4ever »

petercooper wrote: post #192
gordon_freeman wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but would not that make you feel a little guilty as you are lying to the person just to cancel a subscription?

As guilty as saying "I can only pay $X" or "$X is my final offer" when buying or selling a car despite knowing it's a negotiation tactic and not a real limitation.

An interesting question is whether a car dealer that says "we paid $Y for this car, we're losing money if we sell it to you at $X" is committing fraud if Y is a false figure aka negotiating tactic. I think a lot of people would be unsurprised that such a thing would happen, but should it be a crime?

I was reading a Matt Levine column in which he described some litigation over selling bonds that was very analogous to the car dealer situation. And apparently what happened is that it was decided that lying about the price paid was ok per se, but creating falsified documentation to back it up was fraud. Which seems weird!

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#473

Post by perl4ever »

scrollaway wrote: post #174
FireBeyond wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, when it happens day in, day out, day or night, doesn't it become the new normal call volume?

I just assume that they put this in regardless to get some amount of people to think "Oh well I better send an email instead...". Emails are cheaper to deal with. And in emails they put in "We're experiencing a higher-than-usual volume of support requests and we encourage you to look at the FAQ instead". Every. Damn. Time.

As has been pointed out in past threads, the typical HN reader probably only calls on the phone when something has failed or is unavailable on the website, but from the point of view of the call center, most of their incoming calls are going to be people who refuse to use the website for things that could in principle be easily done there. So they are always trying to cut that fraction down or automate it.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#474

Post by [deleted] »

FidelCashflow wrote: post #462

I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the…

[deleted]

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#475

Post by perl4ever »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #457
olliej wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah, this was one of the most insane things I experienced moving to the US. If someone has your bank account number they can withdraw money from it. For example the errands bank account authentication mechanism is to withdraw some money from your account, and then ask you how much they took. I honestly could not believe it. It gets better: if you have someone’s bank account number you still cannot transfer money…

> For example the errands bank account authentication mechanism is to withdraw some money from your account, and then ask you how much they took. I honestly could not believe it. That is crazy! I remember Paypal doing the opposite in the UK, they made 2 or 3 tiny deposits and asked how much they were.

I'm not sure what "errands bank account" means, but I'm in the US and making a couple random deposits <$1 to confirm an electronically linked bank account is mine is how things are done here in my experience. They always take the deposits back afterwards, too.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#476

Post by ChoGGi »

jopsen wrote: post #91
mygo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have a speech impairment (a stutter) and you’d think people would be willing to accommodate. I can speak just fine when I have complete agency over the words I choose to say, but it’s the absolute worst when I have to read out some long specific access code or account number and say it 100% correct. Stutter even once and they think I meant 2 P’s when I just wanted to say a single P. And then it becomes thi…

When I lived in the US I would follow the phone menu for 30s or so, but at some point I would always a get annoyed enough and just hit random keys until the robot says: I don't understand let me connect you... Often hitting # repeatedly did the trick. But lot always.

It isn't SFW (well some), but yelling a couple random swearwords works surprisingly well for getting a human on the line.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#477

Post by perl4ever »

iamdave wrote: post #339
ethbro wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded on this. It's my favorite answer, because it normally creates enough awkwardness on the call to make the other party want it over as quickly as possible. And getting them on your side is always step 1. Bonus points if they ask "I hope it's nothing we did" and you respond with an extra long pause and "I think it's best for everyone involved if we get this cancelled as quickly as possible."

I like having a bit of fun with cancellations once I catch on that they're not gonna make it easy. "Please cancel my service" "We'd like to retain your business is there anything we can do?" "Is my service cancelled yet?" "Why are you cancelling your service?" "My service is still working, can you cancel it? Is this the cancellation department? Who will be cancelling my service?" Just pretend like I didn't hear anyth…

"Meeting retention rates is their problem, not mine."

Do you also maliciously fill out surveys with less than "excellent" ratings even after you are told that constitutes failure according to corporate management?

I understand the attitude of refusing to play the game, but that doesn't justify making things worse for other victims.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#478

Post by Torai »

It was about time. Anyway, the subscription model is kind of a shitty model for things that are not like Netflix, Spotify or some good designed SaaS.

I mean all that entrepreneur wannabes that copy to "Box of X every month" or "A simple SaaS that took me 5K to hire a freelance to do it but I have a niche" model. Please forget about it. I just want a handful of good subscription services in my life. Because I tend to forget I'm paying them.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#479

Post by criddell »

perl4ever wrote: post #477
iamdave wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like having a bit of fun with cancellations once I catch on that they're not gonna make it easy. "Please cancel my service" "We'd like to retain your business is there anything we can do?" "Is my service cancelled yet?" "Why are you cancelling your service?" "My service is still working, can you cancel it? Is this the cancellation department? Who will be cancelling my service?" Just pretend like I didn't hear anyth…

"Meeting retention rates is their problem, not mine." Do you also maliciously fill out surveys with less than "excellent" ratings even after you are told that constitutes failure according to corporate management? I understand the attitude of refusing to play the game, but that doesn't justify making things worse for other victims.

> Do you also maliciously fill out surveys with less than "excellent" ratings

I've started doing this, although I wouldn't characterize it as malicious. I bought a car last fall and that started a ridiculous number of surveys coming my way. I contacted the dealership, the manufacturer, and the survey company asking for the surveys to stop. The dealer and manufacturer both responded saying they would take car of it. The survey company never responded.

The surveys keep coming so I fill them out randomly and return them. It isn't malicious because I'm genuinely dissatisfied with them because they can't stop the surveys.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#480

Post by aczerepinski »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #331

Thank god for that. I made the mistake of joining a Goodlife gym in Canada many moons ago... The place was disgusting. Always crowded. Mould growing in the bathrooms. Stunk very badly, etc... So I stopped going regularly... and one day I was in the area I decided to stop in and cancel my membership. "Oh sorry, you'll need to make an appointment with management in order to cancel." "OK, is a manager in right now?" "Ye…

I'd probably call the police. That's what they would presumably do if a customer was repeatedly trying to sneak in without an account, so it doesn't feel like overkill to me.
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