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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

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Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#461

Post by VLM »

joering2 wrote: post #352
pandler wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When my turn came... I just said "I'm moving to england and I don't know a single person here who might want to absorb my contract". I actually came here to say the same thing. I realized “I’m moving” was the best way to get results in these situations when I was actually moving out of the country for a bit. It’s like a magical incantation that immediately gets them to stop trying to upsell or retain you, no questi…

Recent renewal contract for LA Fitness has this cover. If you moving away you have to provide some sort of a proof, like new lease contract, job letter etc so that they still will try to find the gym within 15 miles and move you over. I was told in LA Fitness you cannot cancel without any sort of proof if you want to use "moving away" as a reason.

images.google.com contains zillions of nice form letter rental contracts. Ditto job offer letters.

Please keep in mind the difference between counterfeit vs fraudulent. Making your own currency is inherently illegal; making your own lease contract or job offer is not. Its very easy for the people/orgs named on a contract to sue for fraud if a counterfeit contract is attempted to be used, very difficult for an unrelated 3rd party. If you use google to make sure your counterparty or property do not exist, its very difficult for the contract counterparty to sue you, given they don't exist and there are no financial damages. Note that bank collateral or financial industry KYC verification or accounting revenue / SOX or insurance fraud is obviously not "unrelated". If you own a small company, which is cheap and you probably should, you can easily issue yourself a job offer in any location; wanna winter over in Antarctica?

They almost intentionally are not trying very hard; they could trivially demand state ID card / drivers license from the new address. Obviously they just want a speed bump as a dark pattern of customer retention.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#462

Post by FidelCashflow »

I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the number on my card and explained the situation to them and that I told them to stop billing me and they refused. The rep noted this issue on the account. Sure enough, they didn't stop billing me. I called the card company again to report that the insurance company had billed me again. They immediately reversed the charges and blocked all further charges from the company.

The insurance agent reported me to DMV (the relationship had soured pretty badly before this all happened) for not having insurance. It was a 2 minute call to my new insurance agent to let them to know to send proof of coverage to DMV. Problem solved in ~10 minutes of my time instead of 2 hours.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#463

Post by VLM »

btrettel wrote: post #113

There have been a few times where I didn't sign up for a service because I anticipated cancelling would be a pain. The fact that trials often autorenew makes me reluctant to even do a trial. I wonder how much business is lost this way vs. how much is gained from making cancelling hard.

Cable TV is a classic example. If you ask how much it'll cost after the promotion ends, they'll go on repeat, "It'll be $20 for the first three months".

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#464

Post by cptskippy »

FidelCashflow wrote: post #462

I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the…

> The insurance agent reported me to DMV (the relationship had soured pretty badly before this all happened) for not having insurance. It was a 2 minute call to my new insurance agent to let them to know to send proof of coverage to DMV.

This wasn't necessarily a malicious act on their part, most likely regulatory, and you probably didn't have to do anything to rectify the situation.

I don't know what state you live in but when I was working for an insurance broker (~2004) CA, TX, PA, FL, and GA all received at least monthly if not nightly uploads of vehicle coverage.

I also know that GA shares that info and DMV records with FL and NC.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#467

Post by bruxis »

FidelCashflow wrote: post #462

I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the…

I don't have enough exposure to the product (not available in my region) but I really liked the _idea_ of privacy.com where you can create a credit card proxy for every subscription you have.

This seems extremely valuable for managing subscriptions, tracking your funds, and of course, some modicum of privacy where your original credit card is only shared with one party.

edit: Seems like privacy.com is a direct-to-bank connection instead of depending on a credit card for funding.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#468

Post by jhauris »

bruxis wrote: post #467
FidelCashflow wrote: post #462

I pay for recurring stuff with a CC for this very reason. I had an insurance company refuse to cancel my insurance unless I physically came into their office all the way across town (would have been about two hours of my time when it was all said and done) to show them proof that I had insurance through another agency. I declined that request and explained that they simply weren't getting paid any more. I called the…

I don't have enough exposure to the product (not available in my region) but I really liked the _idea_ of privacy.com where you can create a credit card proxy for every subscription you have. This seems extremely valuable for managing subscriptions, tracking your funds, and of course, some modicum of privacy where your original credit card is only shared with one party. edit: Seems like privacy.com is a direct-to-ban…

CapitalOne offers the same service on their credit cards with a browser plugin. It also disallows charges to the virtual card numbers from any source other than the site it's associated with.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#469

Post by otakucode »

gordon_freeman wrote: post #118
harryh wrote: post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

but would not that make you feel a little guilty as you are lying to the person just to cancel a subscription?

"Make game of that which makes as much of thee." They are playing you, manipulating you, and not dealing with you as a person. They are treating you like a factor to be optimized and played with. It is entirely a moral response to respond in kind and out-play them.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#470

Post by perl4ever »

JackCh wrote: post #225
gordon_freeman wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but would not that make you feel a little guilty as you are lying to the person just to cancel a subscription?

Despite what we teach small children, lying is not immoral. Lying is amoral . The circumstance and motivation of a lie determine whether that particular lie is moral or immoral. There are times when it's moral to lie, other times when it's immoral to lie, and still other times when morality hardly has anything to do with it at all (such as the above scenario.) We tell small children that it's immoral to lie because w…

I don't think people grow out of the need to follow moral rules as much as you imply. Sooner or later, there comes a time when it is overwhelmingly in a person's interest to lie (or some other transgression). If they are purely rational, they will do it. If they think deeply about morality, they will rationalize why it is right to do what is in their interest. The point of inculcating honesty and other virtues is so one is habituated to the point that dishonesty is preempted when it really counts. Reasoned moral judgement is not an unmitigated good, because it opens the way for bias and hinders the operation of trust needed for relationships.
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