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California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

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Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#431

Post by mehrdadn »

__jal wrote: post #190
mehrdadn wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally! It's nice to see an attempt at a level-headed response, and from the person it was actually directed to (and that you had actually put thought into this). Funny enough, though, no one's actually answered the question I actually asked, which I still have... which is whether this is legal?

There aren't really that many things I can say to you, a private citizen, that are prima facie illegal. Most of them involve violence of some sort or deceiving you about something you're giving me money for[1]. That changes when talking to some LEOs, doctors about certain things in some places, swearing to facts in official contexts and that sort of thing. But generally speaking, I can lie to you all day long about a…

> There aren't really that many things I can say to you, a private citizen, that are prima facie illegal.

I agree, but at the same time you probably wouldn't be interested in saying most of these lies, so it's difficult to use that as a basis for assuming the legality of the ones we might be interested in.

> Most of them involve violence of some sort or deceiving you about something you're giving me money for[1].

This is where I'm stuck. Fraud seems to have a wider scope than money (the obvious counterexample being if you're giving someone something other money, it can still result in fraud). What I'm unclear on is how wide the scope gets. Does "something" have to be tangible and does it have to have a clear monetary value in damages? I don't know what the answer is (which is why I asked), and it seems to me that it could go either way.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#432

Post by amelius »

dalbasal wrote: post #423

There are some built in problems when it comes to this sort of regulator-esque legislation. If a company doesn't want to "do X," but is being forced to, the specific, legalistically deconstructed definition of 'X' gets very important. On the path between the kind of grand moral statements politicians trade in to the way corporate lawyers use language... a lot gets lost A common 'X' is " inform customers of something…

Yes, they should play more cat-and-mouse at the government, before releasing anything to the public.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#433

Post by dd36 »

Merad wrote: post #318
petilon wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal tried to take money from my checking account because Consumer Reports "autorenewed" my subscription -- without my knowledge or explicit authorization. As soon as I saw this I reported this as an unauthorized transaction on PayPal. But PayPal failed to stop the payment in time, even though at the time of my flagging it was unpaid. I then called BofA and blocked PayPal and that worked. So at the moment I have a…

FYI anyone can dip into your checking account anytime they want to. AFAIK there is literally zero security, all you can do is dispute unauthorized transactions after the fact. Even with a paper check all the info on the check (including recipient and amount) is effectively just a paper trail to be referenced during a dispute.

Yes! And you have to catch it within 60 days.

I use examples from a bad embezzlement in my pitch deck. Checks are a joke.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#434

Post by buzer »

zakki wrote: post #226
amalcon wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My name has an unusual spelling, so I always have to spell it on the phone. I've had issues every time I try to use the NATO alphabet for this, because several of the phonetics are names. E.g. someone named Matt might say: "Matt, spelled Mike-Alpha-Tango-Tango" And get the response: "Ok Mike, now I need..."

I am not familiar with NATO standards until I read this post. And I’m not an English native speaker. But what I get from NATO idea is take the first character from the word said in conversation. So when speaking with someone on the phone, sometimes I say “I” as Italy instead of India. And luckily they understand it. You may try “Monaco” instead of “Mike”.

It also avoids similar sounding things, word where it can be hard to figure out what the first letter was & words where the first letter is mute.

There is a joke version of the alphabet that messes with all those rules. http://i.imgur.com/3CbAxSp.jpg

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#436

Post by TomMckenny »

dd36 wrote: post #430
TomMckenny wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out you can not put anything you want in a contract. You can't contract away fundamental rights, for example you can't contract to vote a certain way. But perhaps rather than suggesting that everything in a contract is always valid, maybe you are referring to DIRECTV, Inc. v. Imburgia. And somehow that decision can be stretched to cover this case. Even so, it is clear that the call center is not acing as rem…

You can contract away basic rights. It’s called an arbitration agreement. Whatever is then written into a contract is adjudicated by whoever is defined as arbitrator. There are very limited appeal options.

The a guy at a call center can not act as arbitrator whether the contract says so or not (and I think we can be certain it does not)

For example:

https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/documents/mfa/Guidelines...

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#437

Post by oliwarner »

paulie_a wrote: post #228
harryh wrote: post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

I've found a different method. Email them and tell them they need to call me or they won't be paid anymore. I've actually used the phrase "give me a holler". Got a call the next morning.

You've managed to bypass an automated system and jump the queue, but you're still in a point where you're waiting for their next action, potentially taking a call at a bad moment and then still having to fight the customer retention scripts and getting bounced around a call centre until somebody finally helps.

If your goal is to just end your contract (as permitted), I should not have to jump through any more hoops than telling them we're done.

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#438

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

wcunning wrote: post #309
tacon wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest creating a form letter where you threaten to file an ADA action against them, as well as notifying your state's attorney, etc. Plus cc: the local TV station consumer reporter. When they give you static, they get a copy of that letter sent to their registered corporate agent, return receipt. Their lawyer has to handle all such legal threats. ADA actions are extremely expensive for corporations. People withou…

How do you generally go about finding registered agents? It's never been super obvious to me that Sportsmans Guide is represented by "Clarke, Whitehall and Rosenstein, LLP" or some equally stuffy sounding law firm, much less where the firm might be reachable by registered mail...

This[1] just says most states provide free access to their database to find registers agents.

I don’t live in the US, so no idea which department handles that.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_agent#Registered_ag...

Re: California law requires businesses to let you cancel your subscription online

#440

Post by philip1209 »

harryh wrote: post #12

For places that require a phone call I came up with a trick to cancel via email. If they reply back via email and say I have to call them, I tell them I'm deaf and can't talk on the phone. Works every time.

I have a different trick: I use Lob.com to send a cancellation request through certified mail. Works every time, and takes 5 minutes.
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