Live data from Hacker News

China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

techcrunch.com

31–40 of 71 posts

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

This is wrong and condescending.

Is it? Why?

I grew up in Akron, the former Rubber Capital of the World. There is literally nothing in Northeast Ohio but cornfields, soybeans, brutal winters, and rusting artifacts of the 20th century economy. Columbus could be a good choice for growing tech firms to add a second HQ due to OSU being a pretty decent school, but Cleveland really has nothing going for it. The geographical advantages that led to it's existence and growth during the industrial revolution have gone and will never return.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#32
post #14

> China has its money where the action is. This has been absurdly obvious for about 3-5 years now. The knowledge of actual hardware creation & manufacturing has largely migrated to China (hello outsourcing). Costs of living in reasonably stable environments (required for broad innovation) in the US is absurdly high. Government support and funding for innovation - which is required for high value research - has been g…

> they can watch the US hamstring itself via libertarian policies

The size of the US federal budget has only gone in one direction regardless of which party was in power, and it hasn't been to get smaller. And they keep passing anti-startup garbage like FOSTA or the incredible bureaucracy that de facto prohibits small businesses from participating in the finance or medical industries. These are not libertarian policies.

The problem is they're spending trillions on unnecessary wars and buying the elderly vote with outrageously expensive program expansions, and then there is nothing left -- less than nothing, since it's all debt-financed -- to fund the actually-beneficial (and much less expensive) programs that you're asking for.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong and condescending.

Is it? Why? I grew up in Akron, the former Rubber Capital of the World. There is literally nothing in Northeast Ohio but cornfields, soybeans, brutal winters, and rusting artifacts of the 20th century economy. Columbus could be a good choice for growing tech firms to add a second HQ due to OSU being a pretty decent school, but Cleveland really has nothing going for it. The geographical advantages that led to it's exi…

South eastern Ohio has some nice nature. And even Toledo isn’t that bad.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#34

The most populous country in the world has invested more in startups than a small region of the US. Honestly, why is this news?

Because it includes the entire U.S.

>>China is driving ahead of Silicon Valley and the rest of the United States on venture capital dollars invested into startups

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#35
China is an interesting case because many of the startups are directly backed by government interests. This is also true for SV but not to the extent that it is in China. Most SV firms are backed by private capital with a few notable exceptions (In-Q-Tel).

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. Massive government funding is providing huge amounts of capital to make this happen and there is speculation on bubbles forming by cheap credit with few strings attached.

Links:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-07/28/content_302...

https://news.crunchbase.com/news/one-china-based-vc-backed-g...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-tech-startup-funding-the...

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

Stable not the best word, apologies. Life stability was in my mind. - stable health insurance and medical coverage. - economy big & stable enough that when one job is lost, another can be found without substantial financial injury. - geographically dense and large network of innovative people (this requires a good university - or two). Essentially you need a place where you can take risks and fail without causing a t…

[deleted]

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#38
post #4

Adjusted for purchasing power it probably looks even worse for Silicon Valley. How much is an office and a good developer in a big city in China?

Also adjust the China 996 working hours https://www.wsj.com/articles/long-days-a-staple-at-chinese-t...

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#39
post #3
post #2

Of course they do! China has 4x the people. I don't understand these kinds of articles when they dont adjust per capita. IMO this is the meat of the article: The U.S. can’t continue to look inward and expect the high rates of growth we have seen in the tech sector over the past two decades. Only new, global markets are going to be the driver of prosperity, and right now, China has its money where the action is.

Why would population be the correct normalizer? Would we expect Nigeria to have 57% of the startup funding that the US does?

Nigerian immigrants to the US seem to do even better than Asians!

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese real estate prices are SV level already in some cities that are popular with tech. However, they lean more on dense open offices and even converted underground shopping malls. They also tend to put development centers way out in the suburbs away from expensive city centers (well, it depends, for every Lenovo that is almost out to changping, there is a Microsoft in the heart of Zhongguancun). High office price…

I'd argue its still easier than SV, I'm seeing SV employees move back to China and start their own things due to: a) The VC funding b) The overall startup environment c) Cheaper worker wages Theres definitely communist red tape but right now tech startups are in vogue unless they directly/indirectly interfere with communist or harmonious society guidelines.

Building start-ups in China is great, if you're primarily interested in the China market. Chinese tech companies are overwhelmingly domestic capture entities, they can't get outside the country very easily.

The state now very openly controls all companies in China, directly or indirectly. They dictate what you can do, what you can build, what you can say, what you can sell, where you can sell, what you can do outside of the domestic market, how much capital you can move internationally, when you can move it, who can own your business, how much of your business foreigners can own, etc. You're not allowed to cross their edicts under any circumstances. If you fall out of favor for any reason, at any time, they will destroy you personally.

SV start-ups get the entire rest of the planet as a playground, almost entirely unencumbered by the type of highly restrictive state policies that Chinese tech companies constantly deal with. That's why Baidu was never able to go global and challenge Google. It's why China can never fully go global with most of their social products. They can never compete properly on the international stage with Google, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Reddit, Github, Snapchat, Twitter, Salesforce, Workday, Oracle, Windows, iOS, Android, MacOS and countless other types of companies and product categories. It's why WhatsApp & FB captured the world, and WeChat primarily owns China, but does not - and will never - own the rest of the world: aggressive state censorship sucks.

If I want to say that Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh, I can do that on WhatsApp. If I want to make jokes the Communist Party dislikes, I can do that on WhatsApp. If I want to mock Mao, I can do that on WhatsApp (or Reddit, or Twitter, etc). You can't do that in any ecosystem controlled by China (note, those are intentionally non-serious, illustrative examples, China's restrictions are far more smothering and comprehensive).

SV can't get into China. China mostly can't get outside of China. SV wins.

Post reply on HN