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China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

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Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#21

Post by forkLding »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8
adrianN wrote: post #4

Adjusted for purchasing power it probably looks even worse for Silicon Valley. How much is an office and a good developer in a big city in China?

Chinese real estate prices are SV level already in some cities that are popular with tech. However, they lean more on dense open offices and even converted underground shopping malls. They also tend to put development centers way out in the suburbs away from expensive city centers (well, it depends, for every Lenovo that is almost out to changping, there is a Microsoft in the heart of Zhongguancun). High office price…

I'd argue its still easier than SV, I'm seeing SV employees move back to China and start their own things due to:

a) The VC funding b) The overall startup environment c) Cheaper worker wages

Theres definitely communist red tape but right now tech startups are in vogue unless they directly/indirectly interfere with communist or harmonious society guidelines.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#22

Post by snovv_crash »

echevil wrote: post #16
snovv_crash wrote: post #10

The most populous country in the world has invested more in startups than a small region of the US. Honestly, why is this news?

It also invested more than US+Canada https://news.crunchbase.com/news/in-q2-2018-global-vc-scales...

Now this I consider news.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#23

Post by opportune »

sametmax wrote: post #19
snovv_crash wrote: post #10

The most populous country in the world has invested more in startups than a small region of the US. Honestly, why is this news?

Because the USA have been screaming they are the best in the world for decades, while their leader have been making sure it won't last. Now, we are at the tipping point where China is looking more and more like the world most powerful country.

Unless leaders was a typo and you meant leaders, as much as I disagree with our president, I don't think you can blame him for China overtaking us in VC

It's really just that China is doing an excellent job of developing itself, and they have 4x as many people. Once they reach a reasonable level of development - doesn't even need to be close to the US - of course they will have more VC, and be more powerful

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#24

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

aphextron wrote: post #20
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

New York City, Philidephia, Baltimore, Washington DC, Detroit, Cincinnati, Toronto, Indianapolis, Chicago.....

All of these are about 400 miles away, some less than 300.

And did you edit your comment, because I think it originally said 500 miles.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#25

Post by grandmczeb »

aphextron wrote: post #20
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

> Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio?

~50 million people live within 300 miles of Cleveland vs about ~16 million within 300 miles of SF.

https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#26

Post by giffarage »

aphextron wrote: post #20
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

This is wrong and condescending.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid »

forkLding wrote: post #21
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese real estate prices are SV level already in some cities that are popular with tech. However, they lean more on dense open offices and even converted underground shopping malls. They also tend to put development centers way out in the suburbs away from expensive city centers (well, it depends, for every Lenovo that is almost out to changping, there is a Microsoft in the heart of Zhongguancun). High office price…

I'd argue its still easier than SV, I'm seeing SV employees move back to China and start their own things due to: a) The VC funding b) The overall startup environment c) Cheaper worker wages Theres definitely communist red tape but right now tech startups are in vogue unless they directly/indirectly interfere with communist or harmonious society guidelines.

Sure, but wages are not that low anymore (at least for senior talent) while the real estate bubble can mean it costs more to buy a place than in Palo Alto. This is not even getting to education costs if you don’t have hukou. China isn’t that cheap.

Access to VC is nice, but Chinese VCs ar emote conservative than American ones, the business plans that get funded are going to be very different anyways.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#28

Post by sremani »

aphextron wrote: post #20
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

Actually Columbus OH (2 hours from Cleveland) is considered the sweet-spot city, a third of US population lives less than 500 miles away from Columbus, OH.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#29

Post by pnathan »

space_fountain wrote: post #17
pnathan wrote: post #14

> China has its money where the action is. This has been absurdly obvious for about 3-5 years now. The knowledge of actual hardware creation & manufacturing has largely migrated to China (hello outsourcing). Costs of living in reasonably stable environments (required for broad innovation) in the US is absurdly high. Government support and funding for innovation - which is required for high value research - has been g…

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

Stable not the best word, apologies. Life stability was in my mind.

- stable health insurance and medical coverage.

- economy big & stable enough that when one job is lost, another can be found without substantial financial injury.

- geographically dense and large network of innovative people (this requires a good university - or two).

Essentially you need a place where you can take risks and fail without causing a total life crisis. that is why SV started as a thing: fruit farms with cheap land. Universities were nearby and the Cold War was in full force: a lot of funding was present. The interaction of knowledgeable people is a huge support base for increased research and innovation.

Re: China VC has overtaken Silicon Valley, but do aggregates tell the whole story?

#30

Post by seanmcdirmid »

aphextron wrote: post #20
space_fountain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by reasonably stable. Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable.

>Suburban Ohio is literally an order of magnitude cheaper than say San Francisco and Cleveland isn't that much more expensive or for that matter unstable. Do you know what else is within 300 miles of Cleveland Ohio? Absolutely nothing.

Clean air?
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