C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003) • Hacker News Board

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#11

Post by colanderman » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

a_bonobo wrote: post #2

I feel compelled to note that this page is from 2003-05-13, so I have no clue how much of its gripes are still valid in 'modern' C++ :)

Ya this is a whiny garbage post that looks like something I would have written when I was 18 had I been forced to use C++ for a school project (and probably could have been, given its year of publication). I'm not sure it adds anything to human discourse. It certainly isn't applicable to modern C++, or even the modern zeitgeist of pre-modern C++.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#12

Post by amenod » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

jasonmaydie wrote: post #3

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

Joke aside, it does contribute a lot. On one hand ability to get programmers (for acceptable price) depends on it, and on the other some languages are simply not suited for some environments.

Would you believe I once saw backend service written in PHP4? And not a small one either. It was just the only language the 2 original authors knew... Apparently they had a bit of memory problems because substr (or similar) leaked a few bytes, which over a course of few months amounted to quite a lot of memory.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#13

Post by bunderbunder » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

jasonmaydie wrote: post #3

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

"Dependent" is a strong word, but tool/job fit is still important.

I've personally never grown comfortable enough with C++ to get to a point where, were I to be the one calling the shots, it would ever be my first choice. But I also recognize that it's dominant in certain spaces for a reason.

At the same time, I have a lot of sympathy for people who prefer C over C++. There's a lot of cognitive overhead involved in understanding the semantics of an object-oriented language, especially a big complex one like C++ or Java. And complex languages do have a tendency to beget complex implementations, even when you're working on a project that could be small and simple.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#14

Post by sametmax » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

jasonmaydie wrote: post #3

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

"Almost perfect"[1] disagrees with you.

[1] http://www.wordplace.com/ap/index.shtml

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#15

Post by ythn » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #8

jasonmaydie wrote: post #3

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

Funny how many people believe that language choice influences success. I guess they're all wrong? Sure, there are an uncountable number of other factors, but picking the wrong platform/language can be fatal.

Anytime I see someone bashing Java/PHP/JavaScript on /r/programmerhumor (reddit) I challenge them to a coding contest. I use the language they just bashed, they use their ideal language. No takers yet.

I think, more often than not, language choice is like golf club choice. Different pros have their preferences, but a pro can play a good game with any set of clubs. A novice will blame the clubs for a poor game.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#16

Post by olly67 » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

I used to do a lot of C++ programming, but over time I found that using either C or a real high level language (Python, Ruby, etc) works better for most tasks.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#17

Post by jcelerier » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

> It is sufficiently fascist that it more or less "forces" students to program with a certain discipline. Never mind that no real coder EVER writes programs with that particular discipline once they get out of diapers...

I wonder what would be the author's opinion of Rust

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#18

Post by DonHopkins » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

No joke! No joke! You're the joke!

http://www.stroustrup.com/whitespace98.pdf

Generalizing Overloading for C++2000. Bjarne Stroustrup. AT&T Labs, Florham Park, NJ, USA.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#19

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

2001ish? Besides, it's a really tired debate/joke. Yes, it's hard to learn and has a bunch of misfeatures. But, like Javascript, it's widely adopted and in use on so many real projects that you're not going to get to rewrite.

Re: C++: Is It Really a Cruel Joke? (2003)

#20

Post by dracodoc » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

jasonmaydie wrote: post #3

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

It's definitely an important factor, at least indicts lots of other factors.

- is the language suitable for the domain?

- is library/community support mature?

- are there enough developers?

- who in the company will support it? It's obvious from HN topics that we are obsessed in language topics.

- it also reflect some part of design philosophy, and it could be good or bad for your project depend on the case.