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Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

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Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#51

Post by nabla9 »

jhbadger wrote: post #26

A couple of comments: 1) The author complains that the Socratic dialogs are contrived and largely consist of one character explaining something and the other saying "I see" and so on. Well, that's true, but that's kind of how the format works. You could make a similar complaint about Plato's _Republic_. 2) I think the author totally misses that the reference to not hearing the silverware during 4'33" in a cafe is a j…

This is common problem called "illiterate literary critique".

People who don't read books, or have restricted themselves into limited genres, subjects and styles are easily thrown off.

It's common to see very good writing as contrived or pretentious if it's not what you are not familiar with. Claims of elitism are used to paint actual skill and quality as negative.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#52

Post by BadThink6655321 »

fao_ wrote: post #10
stuntkite wrote: post #6

I'd owned this book for many years and had a similar experience to OP. But one day someone gave me `I am a Strange Loop`, which I started reading and enjoyed way more. After getting in a little bit Hofstadter makes some apologies for GEB saying it was the sum of work of a very young person. I think he was 24? I think it's pretty incredible considering his age. The things that lead him to thinking critically about con…

This. 100 times, this. GEB is an alright book, but nobody I know has actually managed to finish it. I Am A Strange Loop discusses the exact same thing, but does so with the experience of years of writing in metaphor, and more importantly, entirely in metaphor . All of the metaphors are well-crafted in that they are both a pleasure to imagine, can be recalled rather easily, and accurately map to what the author is try…

“... but nobody I know has actually managed to finish it.“

I’ve read it cover to cover, twice. It’s not a bad book, but it would have helped if he had used the Lambda calculus. YMMV.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#53

Post by greggarious »

stuntkite wrote: post #6

I'd owned this book for many years and had a similar experience to OP. But one day someone gave me `I am a Strange Loop`, which I started reading and enjoyed way more. After getting in a little bit Hofstadter makes some apologies for GEB saying it was the sum of work of a very young person. I think he was 24? I think it's pretty incredible considering his age. The things that lead him to thinking critically about con…

Thanks for sharing this course, very interesting.

I wish HN had an easy way to save comments like Reddit, but this reply should do the trick :)

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#54

Post by giantsloth »

This is a perfect opportunity to whip out one of my favorite quotes by Simone de Beauvoir:

“Proust observed with astonishment that a great doctor or a great professor often shows himself, outside of his specialty, to be lacking in sensitivity, intelligence, and humanity. The reason for this is that having abdicated his freedom, he has nothing else left but his techniques. In domains where his techniques are not applicable, he either adheres to the most ordinary of values or fulfills himself as a flight.”

I think this quote applies to a lot of people on this site.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#55

Post by yakubin »

nabla9 wrote: post #51
jhbadger wrote: post #26

A couple of comments: 1) The author complains that the Socratic dialogs are contrived and largely consist of one character explaining something and the other saying "I see" and so on. Well, that's true, but that's kind of how the format works. You could make a similar complaint about Plato's _Republic_. 2) I think the author totally misses that the reference to not hearing the silverware during 4'33" in a cafe is a j…

This is common problem called "illiterate literary critique". People who don't read books, or have restricted themselves into limited genres, subjects and styles are easily thrown off. It's common to see very good writing as contrived or pretentious if it's not what you are not familiar with. Claims of elitism are used to paint actual skill and quality as negative.

It is is possible to know where the style comes from and still dislike it. E.g. I read Plato’s Republic [sic] and hate it for, among other things, its literary style. I find it artificial and, in the case of Plato, fundamentally dishonest - serving as an argument from authority (see Popper’s critique in “Open society and its enemies vol 1”).

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#56

Post by mathattack »

stuntkite wrote: post #6

I'd owned this book for many years and had a similar experience to OP. But one day someone gave me `I am a Strange Loop`, which I started reading and enjoyed way more. After getting in a little bit Hofstadter makes some apologies for GEB saying it was the sum of work of a very young person. I think he was 24? I think it's pretty incredible considering his age. The things that lead him to thinking critically about con…

I appreciate the context. I read the first 150 or so pages about 20 years ago and gave up. (Had the same reaction to Don Quixote) I enjoyed the links between disparate topics but the style got to be much.

I’m convinced to pick it back up.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#57

Post by pvg »

jason_s wrote: post #30

…well, it would have been, but for some reason I kept struggling to get through it. I thought highly of it, but my secret shame was that my admiration for the book was based mostly on the first two hundred or so pages. It took slogging effort to get myself through the rest, effort sporadically applied over the course of years. I did eventually make my way through the whole thing, but even now, I can’t necessarily be…

Are you supposed to get everything in Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming on the first read?

The Art of Computer Programming is a reference work so this isn't as trenchant a counterpoint as you might have thought.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#58

Post by vilhelm_s »

alkonaut wrote: post #8

Has anyone read it and not found the dialogue bits meandering and superfluous? I found the other chapters acceptable but the useless dialogue left me feeling the whole book was pretentious and babbling.

Sure. I love the dialogues, they are by far my favorite part of the book.

Re: Why I Don't Love Gödel, Escher, Bach

#59

Post by Procrastes »

Like another commenter, I was in my 20s. I had no background in Math or CS when I read GEB. I was just a self taught C programmer writing door games for BBS systems. I read it cover to cover and it inflated my mind like a segmented bouncy castle. I had whole rooms to play in that I had never even realized were in there. Parts of it were slow, but I just put that down to my ignorance and plowed on. I can honestly say the book changed my life.
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