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Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

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Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#141

Post by wikyd »

ataggart wrote: post #127
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #28

The late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan supported sending people statements of what was in their social security. His idea was that if people never saw what was in there, they'd never miss it when it was gone. I think this is a logical extension of that idea, and its great. I'd also like to see the flip side of the receipt contain a guess for how the same tax amount would break down the following year based on curre…

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

But there is a substantive difference between B/C and Social Security. There are many retired people today collecting Social Security (not scrambling for IOUs) who paid into the system from their first day of employment.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#142

Post by Ratufa »

ataggart wrote: post #127
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #28

The late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan supported sending people statements of what was in their social security. His idea was that if people never saw what was in there, they'd never miss it when it was gone. I think this is a logical extension of that idea, and its great. I'd also like to see the flip side of the receipt contain a guess for how the same tax amount would break down the following year based on curre…

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

Your scenarios, while technically accurate, leave something out. Here's another version:

D) Your child spends his/her high-school years mowing lawns, doing part-time jobs, etc, in order to save some money to help pay their way through college. You encourage them to do so. The money earned is put in a jar. You take that money, replace it with an IOU, and use it to pay for household expenses along with more frivolous things. Now it's college time and you scramble to find the money to pay the IOUs.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#143

Post by arethuza »

I would dearly love the UK government to send me a statement every year explaining what it has done with my taxes and detailing my share of the liabilities it has been running up on my behalf.

In fact, I want it online and I want to be able to drill down as far as I want into the data.

Of course, my desire for such a thing is balanced by the fact that such a project if carried out in the same way as most public sector IT projects would probably cost a hundred billion and not actually work.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#144

Post by jasonkester »

Screw receipts. What I want is a bill.

The IRS seems plenty good at figuring out how much I should have paid in taxes and hounding me about it. Why not do those calculations in February and send me a bill:

"We calculated that you owe $14,278 in taxes this year. Please submit payment along with the stub below. Alternately, you may choose to submit a tax return for our review."

Government gets their money. I save a bit of hassle in April. Sorted.

I mean sure, they'd end up overcharging you by a few percent, but really that amounts to <$1,000. My time is worth a lot more to me than that. Send me a bill telling me what I owe and I'll pay it.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#145

Post by guelo »

stretchwithme wrote: post #137
guelo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better not tell the Chinese that U.S. treasury bonds are just an accounting fiction.

he's talking about the government lending money to the government, not our massive borrowing. even more obscene than this fiction is how the Federal Reserve prints money, lends it to the banks, who then lend it to the Treasury and collect 3% for doing so. Its such an obvious subsidy of that whole sector, without which would look much worse.

> he's talking about the government lending money to the government, not our massive borrowing.

The point is US T-bills are considered one of the safest investments in the world but when people start talking about SS for some reason they pretend that they are worthless.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#146

Post by ataggart »

wikyd wrote: post #141
ataggart wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

But there is a substantive difference between B/C and Social Security. There are many retired people today collecting Social Security (not scrambling for IOUs) who paid into the system from their first day of employment.

Perhaps you have not noticed the shape of the national debt, but yes, there is quite a bit of scrambling to pay the IOUs for past workers, both by taxing current workers, and by taking out loans (thereby taxing future workers).

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#147

Post by ataggart »

Ratufa wrote: post #142
ataggart wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

Your scenarios, while technically accurate, leave something out. Here's another version: D) Your child spends his/her high-school years mowing lawns, doing part-time jobs, etc, in order to save some money to help pay their way through college. You encourage them to do so. The money earned is put in a jar. You take that money, replace it with an IOU, and use it to pay for household expenses along with more frivolous t…

True, but there's an easy solution: take out a loan in your yet-to-be-born grandkids' name.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#148

Post by monos »

in austria everyone pays ~7% into the public health fund. by law the insurrance is bound to send you a letter listing the benefits you recieved (per quarter i think).

sometimes mind boggeling number - e.g., several thousand euro for a short hospital stay - sometimes zero.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#149

Post by _djo_ »

julian37 wrote: post #76
mediaman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEA's budget is much smaller than total spending on the "War On Drugs" (not sure how that number is calculated; spending against illegal drug manufacturing, distribution and consumption happens at many levels of law enforcement). Their 2009 appropriations were $2.6bn. http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/staffing.htm

Makes sense, but assuming that the $44bn figure in the Wikipedia article is correct I'm still wondering where the remaining ~$97 dollars are hidden. In "Military Personnel" and "Health Care Research"? I guess it goes to show that even with a fairly detailed list of expense positions, you still don't really know where your tax dollars go.

I am open to correction, but as I understand it the $44 billion figure is a calculated estimate of the money being spent in total by any and all government institutions in the US, including that spent by local and state police departments and prison services to investigate, catch and incarcerate narcotics suppliers and users.

Considering the nature of the War on Drugs I'd expect most of the expenditure to be at the local and state level, but the biggest chunks at the federal level aside from the DEA's budget would probably be the proportion of Coast Guard and CBP time and resources dedicated to counter-drug operations and the military and policing aid given to countries like Mexico and Colombia. This is a bit hard to quantify though, as the Coast Guard and CBP usually conduct counter-drug operations as part of their usual duties and not all the aid being sent to Colombia and Mexico is motivated solely by the desire to contain drug production and shipment.

So you would not necessarily find the remaining funding hidden within the federal budget.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#150

Post by [deleted] »

julian37 wrote: post #76
mediaman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEA's budget is much smaller than total spending on the "War On Drugs" (not sure how that number is calculated; spending against illegal drug manufacturing, distribution and consumption happens at many levels of law enforcement). Their 2009 appropriations were $2.6bn. http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/staffing.htm

Makes sense, but assuming that the $44bn figure in the Wikipedia article is correct I'm still wondering where the remaining ~$97 dollars are hidden. In "Military Personnel" and "Health Care Research"? I guess it goes to show that even with a fairly detailed list of expense positions, you still don't really know where your tax dollars go.

[deleted]
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