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Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

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Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#31

Post by dizzystar »

handsomechad wrote: post #23
dizzystar wrote: post #14

Spourious claims about the chemical makeup of vapor? Check. Misinformed statements about what science found about the dangers of vaping vs cigarettes? Check. Citations of studies with no peer review, that likely don't say what the article claims? Check. Wrong information about the mechanics of vaping? Check. Boogyman chemistry? Check. No indicative knowledge about how people actually use these devices? Check. What ab…

Why do you go down mil(lileter?) nicotine as you progress? pardon my ignorance i have only vaped a few times. Why did your jaw hit the floor for JUUL?

Anything above 24 mL is considered dangerous if you are using refillable tanks. Very few people even bother to that high because it is much too strong. The most I could handle was 12mL, but that was on very low-powered devices.

You go down because you go for more power, partly. When I started, you could only get up to maybe 10w. These days, people are going up to 100, but I'm pretty sure they are not using any nicotine for that.

You also just don't need as much over time. Nicotine also over-ride the flavor.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#32

Post by dizzystar »

nullymcnull wrote: post #29
dizzystar wrote: post #14

Spourious claims about the chemical makeup of vapor? Check. Misinformed statements about what science found about the dangers of vaping vs cigarettes? Check. Citations of studies with no peer review, that likely don't say what the article claims? Check. Wrong information about the mechanics of vaping? Check. Boogyman chemistry? Check. No indicative knowledge about how people actually use these devices? Check. What ab…

That's a good hot take, and I don't really disagree about (some of) the tendencies of this article, but this is still a pretty shady / unethical company by most measures. > I was told it has 50 mil nic and my jaw hit the floor. Those that vape knows that's a crazy number Since the earliest days of vaping, it's been easy to get liquids at varying nicotine levels, downright common to have them without nicotine at all,…

As I said, I'm conflicted. I've talked to a few shop owners who told me most people move off of them in short order, no different than when people start with Blu or any of the other more "cigalike" brands.

In my interpretation, no company can really stay afloat by sticking to beginners, except for a very small portion. Every "beginner" device these days is good enough for a long-time user. Even those companies have things that are for more advanced users, though the highly advanced stuff is a different world entirely.

The CA regulations opened the door for companies like Juul to thrive. No one took these sorts of companies seriously enough to suggest them to anyone. Now that CA has all these regulations, vape shops just gave up and started carrying them. It's ironic because so much of the regulations purportedly about safety, yet it's only going to take one Juul to leak to see someone dead of nicotine poison, and the company can apparently advertise as they are due to loopholes.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#33

Post by danpalmer »

It’s interesting how the messaging has shifted over the past ~4 years from vaping being a way to quit nicotine addiction, to vaping being a way to stop smoking cigarettes. I’ve often heard the former from people, but the latter from companies.

With the low nicotine liquids coming out, I bet they are low enough that you can’t smoothly transition from higher nicotine content to lower nicotine content. I’m sure they won’t sell a smooth gradient of nicotine levels that help people quit, instead it will just be marketed as “diet vaping” and will be a huge marketing effort that will pain then in a much more positive light without any real loss of lock-in.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#34

Post by 8bitsrule »

jeffdavis wrote: post #13

Cigarettes have all the right metrics for a startup: great user engagement, network effects, negligible per-user costs, sticky and hard to leave. The big invention here is a one-liner: s/smoking/vaping/g.

Very much like social media, porn, automobiles and sex.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#35

Post by true_religion »

newfocogi wrote: post #3

Does Juul do any advertising? One of the biggest problems I see in the historical tobacco industry was how subversive the advertising was. I wonder if Juul goes down a similar path.

Juul advertises, as a vaper, I see their ads thanks to ad personalization.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#36

Post by lvoudour »

dizzystar wrote: post #14

Spourious claims about the chemical makeup of vapor? Check. Misinformed statements about what science found about the dangers of vaping vs cigarettes? Check. Citations of studies with no peer review, that likely don't say what the article claims? Check. Wrong information about the mechanics of vaping? Check. Boogyman chemistry? Check. No indicative knowledge about how people actually use these devices? Check. What ab…

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, I think your comment is spot on

> People do move from Juul to more advanced setups, and yes, they step all the way down to 12 or 6 mil (nicotine) off the bat and likely go down to 3 mil after a few months.

That's certainly true for me, started vaping few months ago at 12 mil, switched to 6 within two weeks, trying 3 now.

50 mil is insane, there is absolutely no way you'll ever get hooked off nicotine and if it's true that they don't offer lower nic alternatives that's just insidious (and no different to what the tobacco industry has done for decades)

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#37

Post by ryanlol »

mchahn wrote: post #12
colanderman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the GP is confusing smoke with vapor.

To be honest I've only seen pot vapes. And I do see smoke, not vapor.

Pot vapes definitely aren't supposed to put out smoke. With some vapes you could achieve this by cranking the heat all the way up, but it'd be a far worse experience than just smoking.

I guess some of the cheap $20 chinese ones like the "gpen" might not actually vaporize though.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#39

Post by creep »

danpalmer wrote: post #33

It’s interesting how the messaging has shifted over the past ~4 years from vaping being a way to quit nicotine addiction, to vaping being a way to stop smoking cigarettes. I’ve often heard the former from people, but the latter from companies. With the low nicotine liquids coming out, I bet they are low enough that you can’t smoothly transition from higher nicotine content to lower nicotine content. I’m sure they won…

>With the low nicotine liquids coming out, I bet they are low enough that you can’t smoothly transition from higher nicotine content to lower nicotine content.

There's a funny little "vape van" in back of a strip mall where I live. They make their own vape juice (with a permit, of course) in-house right in front of you. They measure the nicotine themselves, so theoretically I could get as much or as little nicotine as I wanted in 240 mLs at $80. They also label the bottles if there are any controversial flavorings.

There are more than a handful of vape shops in my city like this, who can mix their own and who care about what happens with their customers. It's actually like a little community sometimes.

I think as long as the gourmet vape juice business survives, there won't be the problems you talk about. Kids want the Juul convenience, but adults trying to quit smoking usually want to do it the best way-- ie. not with salted nicotine, or disposable juice pods, etc. It's kind of like coffee or chocolate in that way, where it's easy and fun to become sort of a connoisseur and buy all the best and interesting flavors and smoke them in the perfect vape.

Re: Why is Juul worth $16B? It’s more like a cigarette than you think

#40

Post by mchahn »

ryanlol wrote: post #37
mchahn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I've only seen pot vapes. And I do see smoke, not vapor.

Pot vapes definitely aren't supposed to put out smoke. With some vapes you could achieve this by cranking the heat all the way up, but it'd be a far worse experience than just smoking. I guess some of the cheap $20 chinese ones like the "gpen" might not actually vaporize though.

I see a white cloud. Could that be vapor? I always thought vapors were invisible.
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