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Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

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Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#131

Post by kiba »

kscaldef wrote: post #126
kiba wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how race got involved. Ignore that. I was reading a parent's post and reply to the wrong parent comment. Many people agree with you that people should take care of themselves, and that Social Security and Medicare should be, at most, a safety net for people who would otherwise be old folks on the streets without healthcare. Such a policy is usually referred to as "means testing" retirement benefits. No,…

I advocated that the family should resume the role of caretakers What do you think should happen to those who are unable to reproduce, or who choose not to, or whose children die before them, or whose children are just jerks who won't help their parents out?

What do you think should happen to those who are unable to reproduce, or who choose not to, or whose children die before them, or whose children are just jerks who won't help their parents out?

So this is saying that we should need a government to help out all these old people that do not have anybody to help them.

That's nice, but government aid have crowding out effect on mutual aid societies and the like, and that's assuming that government aid are actually better than family based, charity based, mutual aid societies and other voluntary assistance.

Beside, the increasing wealth of society and technological development should eventually help those old folks out. Charity would eventually be able to buy more food and shelter per dollars.

Look, my suggestion isn't perfect and won't cover all the case scenario. But government is a tradeoff. You might be paying it through taxes, increased bureaucracy, less innovations amongst charity, etc.

All things being equal, I think I consider a voluntary effort to support the old people to be more ethical than coercing people to support these people.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#132

Post by blackguardx »

dkasper wrote: post #54
aresant wrote: post #19

Nice viral night's project would be building a simple yourtaxreceipt.com website, reverse engineering those numbers and making a calculator.

Your wish is my command: http://www.incometaxreceipt.com

Your calculator is wrong. Social security taxes have a cap on them.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#133

Post by [deleted] »

xenophanes wrote: post #72
timr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely a great idea, given that members of both major political parties are absolutely loathe to touch the biggest sources of government expenditure: old person benefits (social security + medicare), and the military. Medical services for the poor (medicaid) are comparatively minor, but you wouldn't know it, given how much emphasis the Republicans place on the question of the "welfare state". With greater pu…

Social security and medicare are "welfare" by any reasonable definition. So the welfare state is a big issue.

[deleted]

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#134

Post by natrius »

kiba wrote: post #131
kscaldef wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I advocated that the family should resume the role of caretakers What do you think should happen to those who are unable to reproduce, or who choose not to, or whose children die before them, or whose children are just jerks who won't help their parents out?

What do you think should happen to those who are unable to reproduce, or who choose not to, or whose children die before them, or whose children are just jerks who won't help their parents out? So this is saying that we should need a government to help out all these old people that do not have anybody to help them. That's nice, but government aid have crowding out effect on mutual aid societies and the like, and that…

Private, voluntary solutions that achieve the same goals as government programs at equal or lower cost are always superior. However, I don't think your proposed solutions would achieve the same goals. There would likely be more impoverished seniors.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#135

Post by mkramlich »

timr wrote: post #118
xenophanes wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that the Republicans aren't going to do much of what I want. I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's pointless to speak about issues where the parties in power aren't making good proposals.

"I don't agree that all politicians are Democrats or Republicans, or that it's pointless to speak about issues where the parties in power aren't making good proposals." I didn't suggest that it was. I just think that if we're going to have an intellectually honest discussion about the matter, we have to disregard most of the Republican party rhetoric: the poor are not the problem. The elderly are the problem. As far…

I don't even think the elderly are the problem. I think Congress as a whole is the larger problem. And the structure of national elections, the existance/tactics of the Republican Party, as a close 2nd and 3rd.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#136

Post by ck2 »

There's something bogus about those war numbers, it's far too low.

The US has a $700 Billion ANNUAL military budget (more than every other country combined).

Something is being hidden in other numbers because of all the cost to support military and their families (taxpayer paid "free" housing?) and thousands of military are coming back with traumatic injuries that previously would have been a one-time funeral cost but now are surviving with extremely expensive, continuous medical support and therapy costs (and disability pay for them/family).

Where is the "homeland security" portion in that receipt? Are we to believe the billions in security theater at airports is free and not funded by taxes? What about the billions doled out to local governments under the guise of "homeland security" so law enforcement can buy new toys to abuse?

Where are the secret military projects budget in that receipt (like their own space shuttle, military satellites and other stuff we aren't supposed to know about so their budgets are hidden?)

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#137

Post by stretchwithme »

guelo wrote: post #129
ataggart wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

Better not tell the Chinese that U.S. treasury bonds are just an accounting fiction.

he's talking about the government lending money to the government, not our massive borrowing.

even more obscene than this fiction is how the Federal Reserve prints money, lends it to the banks, who then lend it to the Treasury and collect 3% for doing so. Its such an obvious subsidy of that whole sector, without which would look much worse.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#138

Post by mistermann »

guelo wrote: post #129
ataggart wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>His idea was that if people never saw what was in there... The problem of course is there's no "there" there. Any funds collected today by payroll taxes, and not used for today's benefits, are lent to the general fund and spent. There are no funds being saved for next year's benefits, much less the current tax payers. Now, it is true that the Social Security system then holds "assets" in exchange for that cash, name…

Better not tell the Chinese that U.S. treasury bonds are just an accounting fiction.

Don't worry, they are well aware of this fact. The people running China certainly know this intimately, and even university students know:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSPEK14475620090601

"Chinese assets are very safe," Geithner said in response to a question after a speech at Peking University, where he studied Chinese as a student in the 1980s.

His answer drew loud laughter from his student audience, reflecting skepticism in China about the wisdom of a developing country accumulating a vast stockpile of foreign reserves instead of spending the money to raise living standards at home.

Economically, China is playing Chess, the US is playing Checkers. China is more than willing to sacrifice one or two generations of people to gain global dominance. The people controlling the US economy think in periods of 4 or 10 years.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#139

Post by yummyfajitas »

jbooth wrote: post #130
yummyfajitas wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The federal deficit was $377.9 in 2008. You do the math. I'll post the link again : http://usgovernmentspending.com/year2008_US.html#usgs302

Ohhhhh, we're talking about balancing the 2008 budget.. Well that doesn't make any sense, but I'm looking forward to your answers to my questions above on the mechanics of how that would work. (EDIT in reply: Yeah, that's fine, and I went with it, but talking about percentages of a 380 billion dollar deficit in the context of current events is just plain silly.)

From my previous post: "(Use the dropdown to select year=2008, the last year for which full data is available.)" I don't think I was unclear - jbellis certainly figured it out about 2 hours ago.

As for the specific mechanics, I'll refer you to another post in this thread which provides a number of mechanisms: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1745969

More or less any of them should work.

Re: Thanks For Paying Taxes. Here's A Receipt.

#140

Post by izendejas »

julian37 wrote: post #76
mediaman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEA's budget is much smaller than total spending on the "War On Drugs" (not sure how that number is calculated; spending against illegal drug manufacturing, distribution and consumption happens at many levels of law enforcement). Their 2009 appropriations were $2.6bn. http://www.justice.gov/dea/agency/staffing.htm

Makes sense, but assuming that the $44bn figure in the Wikipedia article is correct I'm still wondering where the remaining ~$97 dollars are hidden. In "Military Personnel" and "Health Care Research"? I guess it goes to show that even with a fairly detailed list of expense positions, you still don't really know where your tax dollars go.

Partly in foreign aid, I bet.
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