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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

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Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#241

Post by patrickg_zill »

paulie_a wrote: post #214
patrickg_zill wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the first family has more status and usually will be the ones that get the bulk of the inherited wealth. It seems to be sort of expected that once you reach a certain level in your business life, you will get a mistress. This is so prevalent in the Philippines that the family law concerning whether or not you can use the last name of your father is explicitly spelled out.

I wouldn't want the last name of someone that is expected to and has a mistress regardless of their level in business... They dishonored that name.

It's that children wanted to be acknowledged by their fathers, or to be able to claim status similar to their "first family" half-siblings.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#242

Post by kelukelugames »

crypt1d wrote: post #115

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.

lol, the Republicans coined that term. Pretty sure they wouldn't describe visiting prostitutes with your customers as not "politically correct."

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#243

Post by kelukelugames »

greggman wrote: post #31

is it all that different in the USA? It's certainly the stereotype we see in movies for wall street. Not having worked there I have no first hand experience. When I ask friends that have they tell me "oh the stories I could tell" but they don't actually tell.

> When I ask friends that have they tell me "oh the stories I could tell" but they don't actually tell.

Well, the first thing I can tell you about us Americans is we make up a lot of stuff to impress people. Look at our president and his tweet about being a best selling author. Happy Fourth!

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#244

Post by lainga »

spacehunt wrote: post #195
scruple wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. My wife is Cantonese-American. Her fathers brothers, the ones who remained in Hong Kong, each had second wives. The children of the second wives aren't really considered family "publicly." They're never mentioned at family events or reunions, nor ever invited, either. When we visit Hong Kong we always carve t…

No, this is definitely not common in HK and is very much frowned upon among the younger generations. In fact, this is the very reason why Jackie Chan is universally hated by the younger generations here, despite his apparent popularity elsewhere.

What changed attitude-wise between the older and younger generations?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#245

Post by coldtea »

wallace_f wrote: post #238
maehwasu wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

East Asians are self-aware enough not to flaunt their dealings to foreigners, since they know how up-tight foreigners are about such things. I've lived in Korea for many years, spent a lot of time in Japan, and do a lot of business in Hong Kong. Prostitution, particularly in room salon settings, is the primary setting for most intra-Asian business. Business drinking volumes are also off the charts, particularly in Ko…

I just know about the heavy drinking, which yea is how it is in SK and Japan. Perhaps I'm naive or not important enough to know about these things. In SEA the prostitution is in your face and even in SG they will stand streetsidr asking you to come in; but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. I'm likely biased in my experiences because I'm n…

>but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing.

Sorry, but what do you mean with "East Asia"? China is East Asia, and this is very much a thing. So is Korea and Japan.

"Since Japanese law defines prostitution as "intercourse with an unspecified person in exchange for payment," most fūzoku offer only non-coital services, such as conversation, dancing, or bathing, to remain legal.[2] Nevertheless, polls by MiW and the National Women's Education Center of Japan have found that between 20% and 40% of Japanese men have paid for sex."

" Kabukicho, an entertainment and red-light district in Shinjuku, Tokyo, measures only 0.34 km2, and has approximately 3,500 sex parlors, strip theaters, peep shows, "soaplands", 'lovers' banks, porno shops, sex telephone clubs, karaoke bars and clubs, etc.[32] (...) It was reported in 2003 that as many as 150,000 non-Japanese women were then involved in prostitution in Japan."

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#246

Post by TangoTrotFox »

I think this article skirts about one issue without ever really stating it, and it sums everything so much more logically and cleanly. In 'regular life' people tend to be fake. They say what think they're supposed to say and act how they think they're supposed to act.

Alcohol, strippers come prostitutes, and other such fun do a good job of removing the social inhibitions in people. It's not about some sort of secret mutual blackmail or whatever (which is also not to say that does not happen) - it's just tearing down the social barriers that people put up. And this most certainly is in no way whatsoever unique to China.

Most people you meet you think you know, you will never really know. A bit of vice changes this for reasons that I do not think can be so easily explained as the article attempts to do. The point is that it does.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#247

Post by TangoTrotFox »

BadassFractal wrote: post #61
sn41 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double standards like these are present in America as well. A friend complained to that a financial firm based in Georgia went through this entire rigmarole of checking his Facebook profile as a prospective employee, only to have the first group meeting in a strip club. He asked me, do they assume that they are never going to hire female employees?

I read recently that the Chinese have a term for that, something like "Western white savior" to refer to westerners who moralize about Chinese culture and act like they will show the morally primitive East the righteous way forward with their progressive views.

In Chinese it's baizuo / 白左 - literally translated to 'white left'. It also shows up in various other languages and cultures. I cannot even imagine how one might view the state of American socio-political movements for those who still have the 'great leap forward' in living memory.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#248

Post by hackits »

lovich wrote: post #56
hackits wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I was making is you're making a moral judgement based on your upbringing to a different culture that has different cultural normal around sex and Business. In essence you're putting your moral judgement above the men you're associating with. Do you really believe their wives and girlfriends are princesses who are innocent little delicate snowflakes that need your manly protection? You're getting played my f…

If you can't make a moral judgement about other people just because they are different from your culture, you are both setting them apart from you as a human and saying that your morals have no values. There are some viewpoints like which is the best kind of bread that you can leave to personal taste, but if you view something as evil and let others off for it just because they are different then you might as well ha…

Sorry lovich, you're making this personal. Cannot have a personal discussion here. Only can make witty, conforming viewpoints of society and social norm's here. I agree completely with your view point and it's great to have such a open discussion with it here. This is a safe space of truth, and cast no moral, social, political bias.

Have a nice day.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#249

Post by wallace_f »

coldtea wrote: post #245
wallace_f wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just know about the heavy drinking, which yea is how it is in SK and Japan. Perhaps I'm naive or not important enough to know about these things. In SEA the prostitution is in your face and even in SG they will stand streetsidr asking you to come in; but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. I'm likely biased in my experiences because I'm n…

> but in East Asia it must all be behind closed doors I guess because I've just never been privy to that sort of thing. Sorry, but what do you mean with "East Asia"? China is East Asia, and this is very much a thing. So is Korea and Japan. "Since Japanese law defines prostitution as "intercourse with an unspecified person in exchange for payment," most fūzoku offer only non-coital services, such as conversation, danc…

I just meant East Asia excepting China/NK

If your stats are true that 20-40% of Japanese men have paid for sex than I am incredibly naive, however I dont believe the stats are that high

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#250

Post by cpncrunch »

motohagiography wrote: post #230
cpncrunch wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as the article points out, it's not actually a good way of building trust: "I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after a year, he will cheat us. He said no way, he’s a good guy, we can trust him!” She looked a little smug. “Now this man owes us a lot of money that he won’t pay.”" It's completely true...if you get the impression that someone has dubious morals, they will just as easily cheat you. I…

Arguably that particular situation was more a symptom of bringing a paramour to where spouses would be present, demonstrating disrespect for his clients relationships (and in turn his clients). That was the tell. People generally don't cheat their in-groups, and these vice collateral rituals establish in-group status. Showing disrespect to the values of a group is a good indicator your perceived cost of defection is…

In my own experience, people who have dubious morals are not good for business.

>People generally don't cheat their in-groups

Perhaps "less likely". My own experience is that people who try to bend the rules are less intelligent, and less likely to be successful. This seems to be backed up by research:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/intelligence-and-cheating-2017...

Of course, this may not work in China, if things are still the same as described in the article.

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