Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#221

Post by mc32 » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #214

patrickg_zill wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the first family has more status and usually will be the ones that get the bulk of the inherited wealth. It seems to be sort of expected that once you reach a certain level in your business life, you will get a mistress. This is so prevalent in the Philippines that the family law concerning whether or not you can use the last name of your father is explicitly spelled out.

I wouldn't want the last name of someone that is expected to and has a mistress regardless of their level in business... They dishonored that name.

It’s not that easy. On the one hand a name can open doors of opportunity in a place where such opportunities are fenced off, on the other hand you can have your pride but not have such opportunities. Given their status options, one can guess what choice most people would make.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#222

Post by Letmesleep69 » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 3:49 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #191

mboto wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this a cultural difference in the US that's different from Europe, in that colleagues don't get involved?

The problem is that in the current #metoo environment, that would be taking a massive legal risk. Sweden recently passed a legislation that requires a proof of consent, or otherwise treats any sexual relationship as rape by default...

I have seen this a few times here on HN and it's just totally incorrect. The new law still places the burden of proving that consent was not given on the victim. Some papers reported it incorrectly but have published corrections.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#223

Post by commandlinefan » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

mikorym wrote: post #184

rixrax wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

*in that vein

I think he meant “transpired”, too, not “expired”.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#224

Post by duxup » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

rixrax wrote: post #59

duxup wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

It is really nice that they got him in touch with his estranged family!

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#225

Post by cpncrunch » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #207

The article really isn't about the vice. The more interesting part of this conversation is, how do you know you can trust someone? The value of most agreements is not in their letter, but their spirit, and you need to know if you are dealing with someone who will honor the spirit of an agreement. Probably the most meaningful aspect of this article, "But the purpose of these visits isn’t a good time. It’s to cement bu…

But as the article points out, it's not actually a good way of building trust:

"I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after a year, he will cheat us. He said no way, he’s a good guy, we can trust him!” She looked a little smug. “Now this man owes us a lot of money that he won’t pay.”"

It's completely true...if you get the impression that someone has dubious morals, they will just as easily cheat you. I never trust anyone in business who even hints at breaking the law or cheating on anything.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#226

Post by setr » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

drollcrops wrote: post #101

setr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to imagine most social norms, and much of what we consider to be good/bad behavior, is reliant on what we're "wired" towards; influenced by, sure, but I would imagine most of it is along the lines of " regardless of human nature, this is the way we should operate". Respecting monogamy, at least in America, is one of those things: regardless of how we naturally would like to behave, we are expected to (…

> Respecting monogamy, at least in America, is one of those things: regardless of how we naturally would like to behave, we are expected to (and promise to) respect the sanctity of marriage. When did residing in a particular nation-state define such specific moral boundaries? Are you saying if I move to China I can cheat on my spouse because that's how things are done there? It seems you are applying your own morals…

Im saying that I'm only going to speak for country I know. I considered christian/puritan, but its not just them, and I thought perhaps abrahamic was sufficient, but im not sure of the muslim treatment. I'm also aware that hindus curremtly have a far stricter, and more culturally/socially enforced, view on marriage; most Americans I've met have difficulty even processing how important they take marriage to be, arranged or by love. The non-christian chinese and africans, I have no idea.

So I'll only make the general claims for Americans.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#227

Post by duxup » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:10 PM UTC

unixhero wrote: post #153

dagw wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's largely a myth or at least an exaggeration. I've worked in both Norway and Sweden (and currently live in Sweden) and I've never seen an office party get even close to going way overboard. Office parties in the US and the UK I've seen have been 'worse'.

I work in a Fortune500 company in a Nordic branch. It's extremely easy to hook up. There's like a mentality that "since you work here" you're already pre-screened :) Summer parties at the office often devolve into something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIf1fydxrfo Global gatherings are, indeed, very crazy. Maybe it's something like this: "If you can't be corrupt anymore, at least you can be sexually corr…

Prescreened?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#228

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #190

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have a choice to be a prostitute, it has everything to do with it. Forced prostitution is bad enough, but being mishandled to the point of being hurt is worse.

So, you're saying, it morally OK to have sex with someone who's forced to be a prostitute, as long as you're not hurting them?! I disagree. IMO consensual sex is fine (however BDSM it is), non-consensual sex is bad. Arguing the degree of badness, while sometimes useful, is (1) not relevant to the above discussion, and (2) a second-order effect, so vastly less important anyways.

No. what I'm sayin is that if it is consensual, whatever folks agree to is fine. It doesn't matter to me if someone wants to go through this stuff or agrees to it. There has to be choice. This includes a legal prostitute: The prostitute should have every right to refuse a sex act, whatever it may be.

But when it isn't consensual, the harm done makes the situation that much worse.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#229

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

gbersac wrote: post #210

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but so can men. People don't assume men do, though - but the'll assume a woman that does well has put in time on her back.

Really ? Never heard about it.

I'm pretty sure I've seen it in movie or tv shows a few times. I've personally seen a man use his looks to get ahead - this was in a company that had many more women than men. And I'm going to guess that it happens with gay men as well.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#230

Post by motohagiography » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 4:29 PM UTC

cpncrunch wrote: post #225

motohagiography wrote: post #207

The article really isn't about the vice. The more interesting part of this conversation is, how do you know you can trust someone? The value of most agreements is not in their letter, but their spirit, and you need to know if you are dealing with someone who will honor the spirit of an agreement. Probably the most meaningful aspect of this article, "But the purpose of these visits isn’t a good time. It’s to cement bu…

But as the article points out, it's not actually a good way of building trust: "I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after a year, he will cheat us. He said no way, he’s a good guy, we can trust him!” She looked a little smug. “Now this man owes us a lot of money that he won’t pay.”" It's completely true...if you get the impression that someone has dubious morals, they will just as easily cheat you. I…

Arguably that particular situation was more a symptom of bringing a paramour to where spouses would be present, demonstrating disrespect for his clients relationships (and in turn his clients). That was the tell.

People generally don't cheat their in-groups, and these vice collateral rituals establish in-group status. Showing disrespect to the values of a group is a good indicator your perceived cost of defection is low. Signalling you don't value your collateral is a good way to put off counterparties.

The guy showing up with a mistress showed not that he was necessarily immoral, but rather, that he didn't value the esteem of his clients or vice collateral he had established.