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Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

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Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#91

Post by Semaphor »

majewsky wrote: post #76

After my initial outrage, I calmed down and looked at this dryly. What if the main issue is that the prosecutors just do not have appropriate mental models of hackers? The crucial step is that they wanted to get ahold of Riseup, a mail provider (and hence, in their view, a commercial entity). Then they find those German people (whom they can get ahold of) who collect money for Riseup. I find it very likely that they…

I think you are right. This seems very probable. Thank you for posting your thoughts on this, I wouldn't have made the same connection by myself.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#92

Post by yAnonymous »

Mashimo wrote: post #90
yAnonymous wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Who? When? Where? The CCC and most of its members - and they don't exactly hide it. The CCC founder was on the far left and that's exactly the course it took. They have talks by Antifa activists. They have combined CCC and Antifa logos hanging in their centers: https://twitter.com/DandelionInaBox/status/90147462783431884... German Antifa are about as extremist as it gets and they are rightly watched by the state pol…

I did not downvote any of your posts. All I did was to ask questions to your claims. And who did CCC say is a Nazi just for sharing non-radical ideas with conservative parties?

Calling every conservative or even people who share some conservative ideas Nazis is an entry requirement for the Antifa. The talks I mentioned, which you'll easily find on Google, are painting the same picture.

Don't bother replying. I'll repost this, because I want the CCC's political affliction to be more visible. It's important to understand the context of their post.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#93

Post by oaiey »

itchyjunk wrote: post #54

Is there an Electronic Frontier Foundation equivalent in Germany? If not, what stops police from conducting searches like this in future? (If this can even be shown as illegal in a court.) I doubt individuals or even small organization can properly fight legal battles.

Like said it is the CCC (Chaos Computer Club). I am pretty sure they will bring this to court. They have the resources and the will to do so. The CCC won already much bigger cases.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#94

Post by _ak »

keldaris wrote: post #69
Tomte wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they do, but I'm not 100% certain. I don't know how far you want to define "police state", but in general, SWATting won't be terribly successful here, the only police units with near-military equipment are special units like the GSG9, and while there's certainly racism, and also at least one probable murder (Oury Jalloh), our police doesn't regurlarly murder minorities. If you limit it to surveillance etc., y…

The militarization of police is largely a U.S. problem among first world countries. As a practical matter I'm more concerned about things like investigations with poor judicial oversight, poorly justified police searches, warrantless or rubber stamped surveillance, frivolous information requests, general lack of respect for privacy rights, etc. France, for instance, unfortunately seems to have moved quite a bit in th…

Militarization of police is happening in Germany, as well:

* Police special forces (SEK which are organized on the state level unlike GSG9 which are state police) have switched from blue to military-like green/brown uniforms (which have no tactical value, but that's another discussion).

* Police in e.g. Berlin are changing their fully automatic weapons by phasing out the 9mm MP-5 and replacing it with 5.56x45 G36 assault rifles for "anti-terror defense" purposes.

* More and more police units are equipped with armored wheeled tanks.

* Peaceful left-wing demonstrations in some states are regularly "secured" by special forces equipped with tactical equipment including assault rifles, a clear intimidation tactic. SEK units aren't even being trained to handle demos.

* Crime statistics are recorded in bizarre ways to artificially inflate anti-police violence, which in turn forms the basis for police unions to demand stricter laws. For example, any attack on a single police man is counted as an attack against their whole unit, and suddenly one victim becomes 10 victims in the statistics.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#95

Post by yAnonymous »

The CCC are in no position to complain. They have become too political and openly support left extremist groups. They allow talks by Antifa members and they have Antifa flags in their centers [1]. These are people who threaten and practice violence for political reasons and are watched by state police.

[1] https://twitter.com/DandelionInaBox/status/90147462783431884...

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#96

Post by woah »

yorwba wrote: post #66
throwwwafgk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the purpose of the blog is to inform about a political protest. I still think it's misleading to refer to it as hateblog, even if the organisers are militant or radical.

The blog doesn't just "inform about political protest", it explicitly advocates for violence. Their primary motivation seems to be hate of the political right. As a leftist myself, I think that "leftist hateblog" is a pretty accurate description.

We can get into word definition games here, but “hate” generally refers to a desire for the extermination or oppression of a group of people based on personal characteristics like race or ancestry. Conflating “hate” with any call for political violence is disingenuous and a sloppy attempt at bad faith rhetoric.

Do you consider the New York Times a “hateblog” for their endorsement of political violence against the former government of Iraq?

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#97

Post by tomjen3 »

majewsky wrote: post #76

After my initial outrage, I calmed down and looked at this dryly. What if the main issue is that the prosecutors just do not have appropriate mental models of hackers? The crucial step is that they wanted to get ahold of Riseup, a mail provider (and hence, in their view, a commercial entity). Then they find those German people (whom they can get ahold of) who collect money for Riseup. I find it very likely that they…

I am not terribly interested in the warrent, but for the other part, it seems nazies are going to nazi.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#98

Post by Tomte »

_ak wrote: post #94
keldaris wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The militarization of police is largely a U.S. problem among first world countries. As a practical matter I'm more concerned about things like investigations with poor judicial oversight, poorly justified police searches, warrantless or rubber stamped surveillance, frivolous information requests, general lack of respect for privacy rights, etc. France, for instance, unfortunately seems to have moved quite a bit in th…

Militarization of police is happening in Germany, as well: * Police special forces (SEK which are organized on the state level unlike GSG9 which are state police) have switched from blue to military-like green/brown uniforms (which have no tactical value, but that's another discussion). * Police in e.g. Berlin are changing their fully automatic weapons by phasing out the 9mm MP-5 and replacing it with 5.56x45 G36 ass…

1. The color of the uniform doesn't seem relevant to me.

2. The MP-5 is just as "military" as the G36.

3. I doubt that. Yes, there are water throwers that are highly armored, but that's nothing new, nor bad.

4. That sounds just a little biased.

5. That sounds not true. Certainly you should post sources for that extraordinary claim.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#99

Post by mintplant »

yAnonymous wrote: post #79
Mashimo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These same people are calling others Nazis for sharing non-radical ideas with conservative parties. Who? The CCC or Zwiebelfreunde? Can you give me a link? Edit: Oh, you are the one with the flagged comment in this thread.

>Oh, you are the one with the flagged comment in this thread. Which perfectly illustrates my point. I haven't said anything offensive. People are treating extremism differently depending on which side they're on and that's stupid. HN is very far left, so this opinion is unpopular.

> HN is very far left

Did you forget that this board is literally run by a venture capital firm? It's not exactly about to rise up and seize the institutions of the capitalist hegemony.

Re: Police search homes of Zwiebelfreunde board members and OpenLab in Augsburg

#100

Post by wu-ikkyu »

woah wrote: post #96
yorwba wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog doesn't just "inform about political protest", it explicitly advocates for violence. Their primary motivation seems to be hate of the political right. As a leftist myself, I think that "leftist hateblog" is a pretty accurate description.

We can get into word definition games here, but “hate” generally refers to a desire for the extermination or oppression of a group of people based on personal characteristics like race or ancestry. Conflating “hate” with any call for political violence is disingenuous and a sloppy attempt at bad faith rhetoric. Do you consider the New York Times a “hateblog” for their endorsement of political violence against the for…

>Do you consider the New York Times a “hateblog” for their endorsement of political violence against the former government of Iraq?

No, that's war mongering/yellow journalism by a mass media company, far worse and more destructive than a "hate blog"

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