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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

201–210 of 258 posts

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#201

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.

Actually a lot of the comments confirm that in the west it's teh same. It's just happening behind closed doors and there are really people (e.g. engineers) who don't know about this at all.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older I get the more I realise life is complicated. I get the need for us to strive to be the best we can be and to those around us but it ain't easy. Please don't get me wrong, imoral acts should be condemned but often I wonder when I reading wording on headlines whether the person killed 3 innocent people or had an affair.

> imoral acts should be condemned What defines immorality and how should that condemnation take place?

Ah you have hit the nail on the head. It's not just who defines morality, it is often also circumstances surrounding events that all combine to make life complicated. A man and a woman swear to be faithful to each other, then it is immoral to cheat on each other. The religion you follow also defines what is immoral and what isn't. There are also different ways to intepret religious passages.

The reason I said life is complicated is because it is impossible to define immorality for everyone. There is also the issue of the law, what is legal may not be moral. Then they are personal circumstances. Is it immoral for an abused married woman/man to cheat? Everyone will have their own answer based on their beliefs. This is why life is complicated. It isn't as straightforward as media headlines we see.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#204
post #6
post #5

Americans don’t like to acknowledge that other cultures have different aaproaches to business. Why is the implication is that these practices are wrong?

Many men are married and this stuff is frowned on for married men everywhere, including east asia. Also, it makes things incredibly awkward (to say the least) for professional women.

So then they don't have to take part in it. Take your business somewhere else.

I can't believe you're all going to sit here and complain about fucking booze and sex while at the same time, by doing business there at all, you're supporting a tyrannical fucking monster of a government!

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#205
post #5

Americans don’t like to acknowledge that other cultures have different aaproaches to business. Why is the implication is that these practices are wrong?

These practices are objectively wrong. For one, obviously, they exclude women and gay men from participating equally in the work place.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#206
post #181
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employees hooking up with each isn't unusual Of course they do. Employees are not slaves. They are free to bond as they like.

Isn't this a cultural difference in the US that's different from Europe, in that colleagues don't get involved?

Colleagues get involved a lot, but it's often fraught/stigmatized--but not too much. Most Europeans I know feel similarly: it happens, but is a less-than-great idea for a lot of reasons, chief among them that if it goes badly you might still end up having to work closely with the person, or choose between them and the job.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#207
The article really isn't about the vice. The more interesting part of this conversation is, how do you know you can trust someone? The value of most agreements is not in their letter, but their spirit, and you need to know if you are dealing with someone who will honor the spirit of an agreement.

Probably the most meaningful aspect of this article, "But the purpose of these visits isn’t a good time. It’s to cement business and personal ties, binding men together through the power of taboo and mutual self-exposure, or at least the pretense of it. It lets them judge that the others involved in a potential deal are men of the same stripe."

And one paragraph down, " As one saying that went rapidly around the Chinese Internet in 2011 put it, “It’s better to do one bad thing with your boss than a hundred good things for your boss. Over time, this can extend to an actual exchange of what criminologist Diego Gambetta in his pioneering Codes of the Underworld calls “hostage-information,” mutual knowledge of each party’s sins that acts as a powerful guarantee neither will break their agreements."

And, "But vice serves as a kind of screen, weeding out the rare few who might have moral qualms about future dealings. It tells both sides that they’re playing by the same rules."

It's not just vice. There is an aspect of these transgression trust rituals in pretty much every organization I have seen.

What I read in this article is that vice is collateral in a relationship, where if there is no collateral, there is no basis on which to trust someone.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#208

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

> The truth is that America is a paradise of social justice.

If you're white.

Like, I get that racism specifically is way more prevalent other places. But it's pretty fucking bad in the US, especially for certain ethnicities. Not a "paradise" by any means.

There are some aspects of the social justice advocacy in recent years that may have gone a bit far, but your statement was pretty hyperbolic, and sounds a bit like the proverb where the man without limbs tells the man without legs "you have nothing to complain about! Nothing at all!".

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#209
post #194
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never spent a night with sisters? Just to clarify, was that literal?

I think sister here means prostitute, but I'm not native English either.

He wanted two prostitutes that were related, i.e. sisters.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#210
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woman can use their sexuality to succeed.

Sure, but so can men. People don't assume men do, though - but the'll assume a woman that does well has put in time on her back.

Really ? Never heard about it.
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