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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

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191–200 of 258 posts

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#191
post #181
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employees hooking up with each isn't unusual Of course they do. Employees are not slaves. They are free to bond as they like.

Isn't this a cultural difference in the US that's different from Europe, in that colleagues don't get involved?

The problem is that in the current #metoo environment, that would be taking a massive legal risk. Sweden recently passed a legislation that requires a proof of consent, or otherwise treats any sexual relationship as rape by default...

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#192
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

I helped a sales focused tech company as their CTO for a few years. The sales team met at the bar for lunch and after work. Drugs were everywhere. The CFO kept a liquor cabinet in his desk drawer. There were parties all the time. Orgies were not uncommon. They ended up being acquired before they could get full on wolf on wallstreet going but it was damn near close. I drank with them but never took it any further. It’…

This appears to be extremely common, especially in some fields, such as advertising. In one of my former companies (in the UK) the sales people (whom I've usually seen either with heavy hangover or outright drunk/drugged) called this 'drugs and hookers -driven sales' (or something aong these lines), and were extremely successful in getting the new contracts signed.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#193
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have a better perspective on this than me, but isn't it also a question of how much people talk about race issues in the US vs. Europe? To me it seems like a bit of a mixed bag: * US Americans are generally very sensitive to the issue and try to be PC as much as possible. * Europeans are rather insensitive to it, which shows in two ways: A lot of people seem to be more color-blind, which IMO is the upside…

Your description is very accurate. But to me it's exactly why Europe is more racist or inegalitarian. > differentiate between natives, people with immigration background and immigrants Yes, in a racist/othering manner. Sure, in the US you might hear about someone being an immigrant or being born to an immigrant family. But this is almost universally mentioned as a positive reflecting ones Americanness. With illegal i…

I agree very much with you, we should head towards a society where the origin of people, their skin tone, gender and sexuality doesn't matter at all, at least in public life, jobs and home search. I just want to add that US and Europe seem to be on different paths and I'm not entirely sure that one is ahead of the other. To me the problems in the US in that regard seem more systemic (e.g. low social mobility), while the ones in Europe seem more personal, comparatively, although with greater regional/national variability. Intuitively I think that PC culture is not helping - it's like paving over social problems instead of letting them go their natural course until a culture has finally absorbed an immigration wave. Heavy handed government- or corporate regulations often seem to have adverse effects.

Although saying that, I do have a picture on how heavy regulation could work better - have more stuff selected blindly. And I do mean blind - no names, no voices, instead you get assigned a case ID (from government?) and you communicate through secure chat, until an offer is either accepted or rejected from any party. That could at least meet discrimination at the initial selection process - of course you still have adverse networking effects leading to lots of jobs not being offered public anymore and the subsequent workplace discrimination issues - these are harder nuts to crack. But the way e.g. job applications in the US are handled is an incomplete shield, it should be either all-in blind or just open to 'cultural fit' questions from start IMO.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#194
post #116
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

Never spent a night with sisters? Just to clarify, was that literal?

I think sister here means prostitute, but I'm not native English either.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#195
post #53
post #12

AFAIK, many foreigners [read: other Asians as well as a sprinkling of non-Asians] (as well nationals from outside a city but who do business in said city) who are married have either "second wives[1]" in these alternate city offices or they have their marriages die in said places. It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. Also often the wives tolerate…

> It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. My wife is Cantonese-American. Her fathers brothers, the ones who remained in Hong Kong, each had second wives. The children of the second wives aren't really considered family "publicly." They're never mentioned at family events or reunions, nor ever invited, either. When we visit Hong Kong we always carve t…

No, this is definitely not common in HK and is very much frowned upon among the younger generations. In fact, this is the very reason why Jackie Chan is universally hated by the younger generations here, despite his apparent popularity elsewhere.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#196
post #116
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

Never spent a night with sisters? Just to clarify, was that literal?

[deleted]

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#197
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I helped a sales focused tech company as their CTO for a few years. The sales team met at the bar for lunch and after work. Drugs were everywhere. The CFO kept a liquor cabinet in his desk drawer. There were parties all the time. Orgies were not uncommon. They ended up being acquired before they could get full on wolf on wallstreet going but it was damn near close. I drank with them but never took it any further. It’…

Why would they get acquired? They were doing good work in-between the partying?

The sad thing about this is that if you are doing this real goal driven it might be your main source of income.

You spend your company's money on private immoral fun of customers, customers spend their company's money on your products/services instead of the otherwise not so different competition. The key part is that nobody actually invests their private money, but the value they get out of it is private. That's why it works and that's why it's usually illegal, and like most illegal things it happens anyway until someone at the top gets really pissed with you/your department/your company specifically.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#198
post #59
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a ni…

I was also a sales engineer 20 years ago. There was a ton of drinking involved, but never anything wilder. I was honestly a bit surprised how tame the after-hours excursions were given what I'd heard from friends at other companies with similar clients. Ability to drink heavily was a requirement of anyone on the sales team though.

I did get a lot of nice dinners and bbq lunches. Seriously, every client had a favorite bbq place they had to show off. Weird in retrospect.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#199

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

I disagree with the progressiveness. There is some, but a lot is actually just discrimination in the other direction. US youth really goes over the top with that stuff.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been around in the 1960s in New York, or how do you know it is a good depiction of sexism in the 1960s in New York?

I'm sorry I communicated it too unclearly to you. I italicized the word seems on purpose, and for this reason. I did this to communicate that I don't know whether it actually is a good depiction but it seems to be. If I would have known, then I would not have used that word.

OK, sorry, I didn't notice that it was italicized. That hint was too subtle. Maybe dependent on screen.
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