Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#121

Post by baybal2 » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

This is the shit that the "Laoban" culture is, a culture of middle aged looser type officials - it is everywhere where the touch of communist "culture" reached. This shit started with party members, and state companies from North East, then it spread like a virus to everywhere where people from the region were hired in any much high position.

I'm not surprised that Westerners fail to perceive the essence of the it — this is an act of collective humiliation of junior employees who are made passive spectators of those disgusting orgies. It is a sublime message to his underlings — be my loyal shoeshiner, and maybe one day I will elevate you to a position where you can do this too.

Those middle age nobodies rarely if ever attend brothels just by themselves, the whole point for them doing so is to drag their subordinates into it, making them a part of the "humiliation pyramid." There is no "oiling of the deal" element here.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#122

Post by SolarNet » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:01 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #120

donquichotte wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is you. From TFA: "“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“" Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.

I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.

Like they have a choice? Did you see the part where it's basically impossible for women to succeed in business as any average man would because of this system?

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#123

Post by watwut » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:02 AM UTC

crypt1d wrote: post #115

is it just me or the amount of bigotry in the comments here is ridiculous? some people do business differently, get over it. Not everyone agrees with the western "politically correct" approach to life, and that's ok.

For me it personally, stories like this make it impossible to buy the theory that the world or work are meritocracy or fair.

It is not so much that it is politically incorrect, it is more that you can't simultaneously claim that this is how it is and is ok while also claim that everything is totally fair and demographic composition is not influenced by any of this.

Not just gender, also religious as it selects people with certain values - good traditional Christian boy saving himself for marriage is f-cked too.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#124

Post by watwut » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:06 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #120

donquichotte wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is you. From TFA: "“The more guys, the less safe the girl is. When there are other men in the room [for sex], it’s like the men are competing with each other, and they get rougher, so the girls can get really hurt.“" Not much need for bigotry to see that if people get "really hurt" in an inter-company bonding event, something must be wrong.

I'm sure the prostitutes knew what they were signing up for.

They signed up for sex for money, not to get hurt. Workplace safety and all that.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#125

Post by charlesdm » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:07 AM UTC

da02 wrote: post #48

godzillabrennus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I helped a sales focused tech company as their CTO for a few years. The sales team met at the bar for lunch and after work. Drugs were everywhere. The CFO kept a liquor cabinet in his desk drawer. There were parties all the time. Orgies were not uncommon. They ended up being acquired before they could get full on wolf on wallstreet going but it was damn near close. I drank with them but never took it any further. It’…

Why would they get acquired? They were doing good work in-between the partying?

People buy from people they like, I guess? I'm not in sales but it's a lot easier to bond with someone while having dinner together and drinks, than it is in an office meeting room.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#126

Post by taneq » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:10 AM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #55

Teeer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the obvious joke

If you've been to Thailand, there's no reason for it to be said jokingly, at all.

Yeah, I didn't mean it disparagingly or jokingly. Some places in Thailand quite openly cater to all proclivities. (Once when I was backpacking there, some guy came out of a side alley and approached me saying "young girls, beautiful girls!" and when I said no thank you, immediately switched to "young boys, beautiful boys?")

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#127

Post by SolarNet » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:10 AM UTC

bpizzi wrote: post #73

PakG1 wrote: post #39

A few female entrepreneurs, however, explicitly reject the values pushed by businessmen. “One of my husband’s business friends got married just two years ago,” explained Li, in her early 40s, who co-owns a steel business with her husband, “We went to his wedding. But when we hosted an event last year, he came with a young girl who was obviously his mistress. I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after…

A bit off-topic - well, to be fair, it may have been the other way: the man could have been the one saying "he'll cheat on us", and the women telling him "it's ok". Women are as prone to cheating as men. Women are not inherently faultless just because of their gender.

In a more equal world like the western one we both (probably) live in, absolutely. In a place with strong gender roles (like the one in the article), being successful and female means being purposefully contrarian and acutely aware of gender roles; hence I would trust a female Chinese businesswoman more by default than their male counterparts because she operates in a gendered society.

My point is we have strong evidence people's behavior is effected by society. So in a society with strong gender roles its easier to make assertions about specific genders with less information because of how gender roles operate.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#128

Post by xmrsilentx » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:11 AM UTC

forkLding wrote: post #2

I see this as an East Asian phenomenon, I believe Koreans and Japanese do this to a certain degree as well as certain other East Asian groups. I've heard Russians do bathhouse deals as well although I could be wrong and there is also the finance sector's strip club visits with their clientele that I've heard of ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-12/it-s-clos... ). It seems so weird to see people have t…

It's an ancient custom of mutual imprecation.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#129

Post by jmngomes » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:12 AM UTC

shanghaiaway wrote: post #45

forkLding wrote: post #2

I see this as an East Asian phenomenon, I believe Koreans and Japanese do this to a certain degree as well as certain other East Asian groups. I've heard Russians do bathhouse deals as well although I could be wrong and there is also the finance sector's strip club visits with their clientele that I've heard of ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-12/it-s-clos... ). It seems so weird to see people have t…

I've heard Americans go to strip clubs

Much in the same way as europeans. It's a universal behaviour, hardly specific to asia...

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#130

Post by zavi » Wed, Jul 04, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #105

zergleader wrote: post #19

Pretty much. One of the most strange things I experience in America is the insistence that America is somehow the most sexist / racist country. Oh boy! When the current generation of social justice from America floods its banks and arrives in Asia there is going to be an ugly reckoning. I think the idea that many of China’s troubles (corruption / pollution / freedom reductions) are a byproduct of the extreme rapid mo…

It's always easy to tell someone they have it good when we all live on a power law. Just tell them to look a notch down and see someone half their height, just as long as they don't look up at you and see your waist. The entire structure of the American economy and the attitudes it uses to keep its subjects in check are of this form. In many ways, the US is advanced but in many ways it also lags other places, namely…

A premise that there's less racism in Europe than in the US is just wrong (I'm a European who've spent a lot of time in the US for work and school). US is the PC capital of the world (for better or worse). There's just not a whole lot of non-white folks in Europe even now.