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Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

chinafile.com

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Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#51

Post by dm3730 »

stcredzero wrote: post #27
dm3730 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see this as an East Asian phenomenon, I see this as one of the effects of European colonialists on East Asia and South East Asian colonies. The practice of colonialist generals/warlords, typically of a naval background of using brothels as a place/culture to bond with other warlords/generals and their local puppets is the predecessor of the current "elite level" business culture observed in these former colonies.…

I see this as one of the effects of European colonialists on East Asia and South East Asian colonies. No. There were brothels somewhere in Asia, basically forever. Rough men have made deals in and around them, basically forever.

> No. There were brothels somewhere in Asia, basically forever.

I believe you're intentionally misconstruing my argument. It would be ridiculous to claim that Europeans invented brothels in Asia. What I am pointing out, which is well supported by historical evidence, is that European colonialism, resource extraction culture, such as the encomienda system in the Americas created the political and socio-economic structures that are the dominant structures behind the sex trafficking and "sexual activity based dealmaking" that is discussed in the article.

For example, impoverished indigenous Americans like the Mayas/mestizo are used as sex exploits/rites of passage/sex maids by the modern teenage descendants of Spanish conquistadors who treat it as a bonding experience. Much like how frats have group sex acts with women from impoverished backgrounds (or minorities) as part of their hazing/bonding rituals.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#53

Post by scruple »

mc32 wrote: post #12

AFAIK, many foreigners [read: other Asians as well as a sprinkling of non-Asians] (as well nationals from outside a city but who do business in said city) who are married have either "second wives[1]" in these alternate city offices or they have their marriages die in said places. It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate. Also often the wives tolerate…

> It has some intriguing aspects, such as the children of the "first wife" are often seen as more legitimate.

My wife is Cantonese-American. Her fathers brothers, the ones who remained in Hong Kong, each had second wives. The children of the second wives aren't really considered family "publicly." They're never mentioned at family events or reunions, nor ever invited, either. When we visit Hong Kong we always carve time out to see a couple of her cousins from second wives. It was strange to me at first (as so many things are) but I've come to understand that it was very common among the older generations.

I'm not sure what's going on with her male cousins who are in Hong Kong. I've never thought to ask and don't want to pry but I am kind of curious now to know if it's being picked up by younger generations, as well. I guess in my naivety I had unconsciously assumed the practice would die out.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#54

Post by Consultant32452 »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #49
PakG1 wrote: post #39

A few female entrepreneurs, however, explicitly reject the values pushed by businessmen. “One of my husband’s business friends got married just two years ago,” explained Li, in her early 40s, who co-owns a steel business with her husband, “We went to his wedding. But when we hosted an event last year, he came with a young girl who was obviously his mistress. I told my husband that if he cheats on his wife only after…

I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. Nor would I want to hang out with colleagues at a strip club if we were not friends outside of work. I don’t think this is some gender thing. Maybe be men are more likely to be coerced into doing these things. But I think they’re having fun.

>I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either.

I would be careful about that, because that group includes the likes of Martin Luther King, Jr., Stephen Hawking, Einstein, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to feel the same way, and have ended personal relationships when I found out someone had cheated on their spouse, but some of history's greatest figures cheated on their spouse.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#55

Post by mistermann »

Teeer wrote: post #42
sanderjd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point; he didn't turn down the invites because he's gay, they called him gay because he turned down the invites...

I think you missed the obvious joke

If you've been to Thailand, there's no reason for it to be said jokingly, at all.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#56

Post by lovich »

hackits wrote: post #35
lovich wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of Thai people and the men might be fine with this but none of their wives or girlfriends are. You don't have to accept something that you think is immoral just because it's in someone else's culture

The point I was making is you're making a moral judgement based on your upbringing to a different culture that has different cultural normal around sex and Business. In essence you're putting your moral judgement above the men you're associating with. Do you really believe their wives and girlfriends are princesses who are innocent little delicate snowflakes that need your manly protection? You're getting played my f…

If you can't make a moral judgement about other people just because they are different from your culture, you are both setting them apart from you as a human and saying that your morals have no values.

There are some viewpoints like which is the best kind of bread that you can leave to personal taste, but if you view something as evil and let others off for it just because they are different then you might as well have no morals

Edit: Also your insinuation that I find cheating bad only because I'm some kind of White Knight is uncalled for. There are certainly Thai women that cheat, but it's not part of their culture to treat it as a standard and necessary part of business. People will make mistakes or just be bad people, but normalising that is not ok

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#57

Post by cm2012 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #54
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. Nor would I want to hang out with colleagues at a strip club if we were not friends outside of work. I don’t think this is some gender thing. Maybe be men are more likely to be coerced into doing these things. But I think they’re having fun.

>I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. I would be careful about that, because that group includes the likes of Martin Luther King, Jr., Stephen Hawking, Einstein, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to feel the same way, and have ended personal relationships when I found out someone had cheated on their spouse, but some of history's greatest figures cheated on their spouse.

Trustworthy =/ World changing.

People can have a net positive on the world and still regularly backstab acquaintances. See Steve Jobs.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#59

Post by rixrax »

duxup wrote: post #21
underlines wrote: post #7

I'm a foreign CTO working in Bangkok and being fully fluent in Thai showed me that it's exactly the same practice in SEA regions: Got to close a deal with a government official? They'll head to the "bathtub massage" area Huai Kwang. Need to bond with a local Business man? Deal closes there as well. Bond with male work mates? On to the bathtub place! Everyone knows it, there's jokes about it and this particular busine…

Heck in the US 20 years ago, a coworker of mine was assigned to a job where his first account was some old school east coast bank. One night dude calls "OMG man we are at dinner and the sales guy didn't show up so it's just me and them and they want to hit the strip clubs a couple blocks away after this." I had no good advice as I was a n00b too so I told him to call his boss. He was told "keep them happy" so he spen…

~20 years ago I was a sales engineer to the extremely good salesman. We had submitted a substantial quote followed by invoice to one of the tier I carriers in US, but for reason or the other, it wouldn't get processed / paid. Rumor has it that the (now retired) VP blocking the payment at carrier in roundabout ways told to our sales exec that he will be going to Toronto at a given date and that he has never spent a night with sisters. Allegedly arrangements were made, and as soon as he was back, that PO was approved.

Till today, I do not know if that's how it expired. The salesman never admitted to anything. And in all ways he was one the most organized and professional salesman I've ever worked with. And in that vain, I want to believe this is how it also happened.

Re: Booze, Sex, and the Dark Art of Dealmaking in China (2015)

#60

Post by steve19 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #54
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. Nor would I want to hang out with colleagues at a strip club if we were not friends outside of work. I don’t think this is some gender thing. Maybe be men are more likely to be coerced into doing these things. But I think they’re having fun.

>I would not trust any person who cheated on their spouse either. I would be careful about that, because that group includes the likes of Martin Luther King, Jr., Stephen Hawking, Einstein, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to feel the same way, and have ended personal relationships when I found out someone had cheated on their spouse, but some of history's greatest figures cheated on their spouse.

It doesn't mean they are bad people. Everyone makes mistakes. You can do business with someone you can't trust, just don't put yourself in a position where your life/business/career/happiness depends on them behaving.
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