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Average annual hours worked per country

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Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#71

Post by gascan »

acd wrote: post #52

Working less hours is better. Then you can spend more time with people that matter family and friends. There is no point in working much just for the sake of it. Also working hours vs gdp should show that you can work less hours and still have a high gdp.

Nah I think what you'd really want to look at is something like YOY GDP growth vs hours worked, or something like that. If a country is experiencing large gains in output, working more hours is paying great dividends and raising everyone's standard of living, etc. You're not working just for the sake of working.

On the other hand if output is stable, that's a time to start spending more time with family.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#72

Post by gweinberg »

It absolutely is NOT. it explicitly states these numbers are only useful for comparing hours worked by year in a given country, not for comparing between countries.

"The concept used is the total number of hours worked over the year divided by the average number of people in employment. The data are intended for comparisons of trends over time; they are unsuitable for comparisons of the level of average annual hours of work for a given year, because of differences in their sources."

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#73

Post by gerdesj »

betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more

Your evidence ...

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#74

Post by kbenson »

ekianjo wrote: post #69
betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

> know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. No, you dont know it for a fact, and you should also add that Japanese working in large corporations just STAY late because they have to, not because they are actively working. So "working hours" is not always about work if you consider the time they are physically at work.

> Japanese working in large corporations just STAY late because they have to, not because they are actively working.

I think that's a distinction without relevance, depending on what you are trying to infer from the data. Plenty of people spend a portion of their paid workday not doing work either, along a wide spectrum. Some people do no active work besides fill a seat, others take no breaks beyond what is required and stay on task the entire time (sometimes there is no option to do otherwise by the nature of the work). If you're at work, you aren't able to do certain other activities you might like to do (for example, it prevents spending time with your children, even if you are allowed to recline and watch a movie while at your desk).

We can measure hours working, we can measure productivity, or we can combine them, but it's probably not useful for us to start conflating them.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#75

Post by sonnyblarney »

forapurpose wrote: post #50
defertoreptar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet another example of the surprisingly poor living quality in the USA in aggregate terms relative to GDP. If your friend grows up in a rich neighborhood and all of his friends drive BMWs, and he's upset because he's driving a brand new Accord, would you feel bad for him? Probably not, but this is how people criticize the USA's relative poverty and income inequality. If you disregard absolute terms and only look th…

> If your friend grows up in a rich neighborhood and all of his friends drive BMWs, and he's upset because he's driving a brand new Accord, would you feel bad for him? Probably not, but this is how people criticize the USA's relative poverty and income inequality. The US has higher income per capita than almost any country in the world, yet living standards are relatively low for a wealthy country. For example, many…

"US life expectancy is dropping" there are so many things that affect this that it's not a very good measure of healthcare.

US has great healthcare for those who have coverage. The issue is non-full coverage and how bonkers costly it is. Not quality in general.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#76

Post by [deleted] »

Fnoord wrote: post #63
schnevets wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ZZP idea is particularly intriguing to me. Do you think this is a direct result of the strong social net, or a sense of independence that existed in Dutch culture before benefits?

A lot of ZZPers aren't really self employed. As an example, an Uber driver would be a ZZPer therefore avoiding certain rights and laws a normal employee would have. Another example would be MLM such as a Tupperware salesman. They also don't get pension.

[deleted]

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#77

Post by mmt »

RobertoG wrote: post #51
kjeetgill wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the desire to explain something comes from the data not lining up with expectations. You either want to explain why the data lacks details and reality DOES line up with intuition OR why the intuition was wrong or prejudicial. I get it, stereotypes can suck and make bad null hypotheses but thats how these things go.

I get it, but there are two ways to solve it. You can accept the data and change your theory or you can ignore the data and keep your theory. The more simple theory here is, obviously, that the Greeks work more. It bothers me that many people in a community of theoretically science orientated people, as HN, choose the more complicated explanation by default. "thats how these things go" is a really low standard, by th…

I'm a bit confused as to what your thesis is, but perhaps it's because I'm distracted by the fact that there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the data show.

FTA:

>The concept used is the total number of hours worked over the year divided by the average number of people in employment.

(emphasis mine)

My understanding is that the stereotypes are about "Germans" and "Greeks", which implies total populations (presumably defined by residency or nationality or something similar), but that data uses, as a denominator, only that portion of the population which is employed.

The inclusion of the population at large, or, more importantly, the population that could be employed, is discussed elsewhere in the thread (outside of the notion of stereotypes) as being a more useful indication of something like labor output (at least as compared with potential total output), especially when compared with GDP.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#78

Post by hrktb »

betadreamer wrote: post #2

Keep in mind that this is showing the "reported" hours, which can be misleading. For example it shows that people in US works more than Japan but I know for a fact that people in Japan works A LOT more. However, since it is a cultural thing and they expect you to work long hours, no one reports overtime. I even heard that you can get fired if you report it.

> people in Japan work A LOT more

No they don’t. Not your average part-time worker at the supermarket registry, nor your mostly stay at home mother doing 4h a day at the convinience store.

This study is not just about high profile workers, it’s for the global working population, “blue collar” and part timers included.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#79

Post by forapurpose »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #75
forapurpose wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your friend grows up in a rich neighborhood and all of his friends drive BMWs, and he's upset because he's driving a brand new Accord, would you feel bad for him? Probably not, but this is how people criticize the USA's relative poverty and income inequality. The US has higher income per capita than almost any country in the world, yet living standards are relatively low for a wealthy country. For example, many…

"US life expectancy is dropping" there are so many things that affect this that it's not a very good measure of healthcare. US has great healthcare for those who have coverage. The issue is non-full coverage and how bonkers costly it is. Not quality in general.

> US has great healthcare for those who have coverage

While I agree it seems pretty good, I'd be interested in a more detailed breakdown of its strengths and weaknesses (for those who have coverage, and ignoring costs). I realize that nothing tells me that it's "great" other than somewhat boastful repetition by Americans.

Re: Average annual hours worked per country

#80

Post by hrktb »

hmexx wrote: post #14

Funny.. in Europe, Germans are considered hard-working and Greeks typically "lazy". According to these stats, the truth is completely the opposite!

There is a “Full time part time employment” category that shows the split for part time workers.

Germany has a bigger proportion of part timers than Greece, which explains the numbers.

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