British divers make contact with missing Thai football team • Hacker News Board

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#111

Post by mcfunk » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #18

How does cave oxygen supply work? Would they not run out of oxygen by the time they can get out? Also, one detail that CNN got that I didn't see in this article: it seems the cave is one kilometer underground ! [1] EDIT 1: The CNN article partially answers my first question: "Rescuers will also pump air into the cave to improve conditions." EDIT 2: Another important bit here [2]: "It won't be anything like diving tha…

The most interesting suggestion I read about this was: > With the rescuers, doctors and other staff likely to enter the cave, rescuers could open scuba tanks to ensure they had all enough oxygen. “It will create air pressure and the carbon dioxide will filter out through the rock,” Wolf said. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/02/thailand-...

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#112

Post by mhb » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

Sevrene wrote: post #106

bitL wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have those small engines/jets/scooters for divers, so exhaustion from swimming should not be a problem, right? They also can place long glowing ropes in murky water; it's been done all the time in caves (or bind them to scuba divers, one in front, one in the back of a group). Once those boys get proper proteins/water and wait for a day or two to recover, they should be able to work it out, unless rain picks up -…

I'm no expert but I don't believe those diving jets are going to help in such an environment because A) takes up space of which they most likely don't have and B) it kicks up a lot of silt and dirt, making visibility conditions terrible. This can make or break such a rescue attempt and be really dangerous even for a seasoned cave diver.

This doesn't seem so bulky: http://www.businessinsider.com/handheld-jet-thruster-propels...

And DIY versions abound: https://hackaday.com/2017/07/02/the-almost-working-diy-under...

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#113

Post by wlll » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #87

dm319 wrote: post #25

This is great news, but sadly their lives are still very much at risk. They are too deep to drill down to, there is a lot of rain to pump out (and the rain can continue), and they can't swim (even if they could, this is a hard dive for those that can). Found this from a Bill Whitehouse: Bill Whitehouse, vice-chair of the British Cave Rescue Council which is helping the rescue efforts, played down speculation the boys…

Can't they run an oxygen hose to the place? Or perhaps bring a bunch of oxygen tanks, which could be used until they figure it out?

They are (or were) planning for the possibility of the group having to stay down there for months to allow the rainy season to pass, while being re-supplied by divers.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#114

Post by wlll » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

jaggederest wrote: post #14

cr1895 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>have to wait several weeks A BBC article said it could be months, much less weeks. It's the beginning of the rainy season. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44692813

It's interesting, I wonder what the pros and cons are for drilling to retrieve them or send supplies. In the mine collapse situations that I'm aware of, there was already infrastructure on hand for heavy equipment and drilling. I have to imagine that the dangers of cave diving are multiplicative - you don't get enough skill-based improvement from any given trip into/out to make repeated trips a safe option.

One more benefit they had with the mine was that they knew where it was and had it mapped. As far as I know no-one knows where to drill above ground to get to the chamber.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#115

Post by onetimemanytime » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

trashtester wrote: post #54

onetimemanytime wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note everyone is used to having chlorinated and flouride(d) water so their bodies might have been used to relatively dirty water. Of course, I could wrong in their case...don't know their background

How prejudiced of you :) Most places in Thailand have access to purified water for drinking. Here is an article from Cambodia, where they are some years behind: https://medium.com/make-a-difference/bringing-clean-water-to...

ha! They down-voted me apparently. To those that down-voted me: Not everyone can turn the tap on and get clean water. Even if Thailand has it today, they probably didn't have it yesterday. When you drink from dubious sources, unless you die as a child, you gain some sort of immunity. A techie from SF can get sick and even die, but a local can drink from the same source and nothing happens to him /her.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#116

Post by wlll » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

cimmanom wrote: post #15

Assuming the divers will have to shuttle supplies to the trapped team: is there a way to make repeated dives less risky, such as stringing a guide line that divers can follow?

If you find the video where they make first contact you can see one of the divers has a reel that will have had a line attached, and they discuss how to secure it.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#117

Post by sp332 » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:33 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #100

cm2187 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is that surely there must be a wide enough passage for them to have got in in the first place. It may be flooded but if one can walk into them vertically, surely they should be fairly accessible to a diver horizontally. Can't they just follow / be attached to a string or something like that?

It's a 2.5 km (a bit less than 2 miles) underwater swim. Right now they've been without food for 10 days and are barely able to stand. At the moment they wouldn't be able to walk the distance, much less spend many hours (it was about four hours for the experienced divers, so more for the boys) swimming underwater in unpredictable currents with no visibility due to silt, so if they get confused and let go of the strin…

Fortunately the current is in the direction that they need to go to get out.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#118

Post by elithrar » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

mhb wrote: post #112

Sevrene wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert but I don't believe those diving jets are going to help in such an environment because A) takes up space of which they most likely don't have and B) it kicks up a lot of silt and dirt, making visibility conditions terrible. This can make or break such a rescue attempt and be really dangerous even for a seasoned cave diver.

This doesn't seem so bulky: http://www.businessinsider.com/handheld-jet-thruster-propels... And DIY versions abound: https://hackaday.com/2017/07/02/the-almost-working-diy-under...

Note that the article states:

> Narongsak explained that the divers had fixed rope lines along the passageway and distributed oxygen tanks along their route, allowing them to advance through the exceptionally narrow passageway unencumbered by bulky equipment.

The (extremely skilled) divers aren't wearing tanks due to how narrow some parts of the passage are. Using a thruster in a cramped environment is not a silver bullet.

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#119

Post by dillondoyle » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #28

doikor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were stuck in a cave that was flooding. Plenty of water to go around. Probably not the cleanest but will do in an emergency.

Diarrhea will make you die a lot faster, your attitude is a bit blasè for water that is potentially contaminated with feces.

It's not like someone from the US who has only drank clean processed water

Re: British divers make contact with missing Thai football team

#120

Post by bitL » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

elithrar wrote: post #118

mhb wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't seem so bulky: http://www.businessinsider.com/handheld-jet-thruster-propels... And DIY versions abound: https://hackaday.com/2017/07/02/the-almost-working-diy-under...

Note that the article states: > Narongsak explained that the divers had fixed rope lines along the passageway and distributed oxygen tanks along their route, allowing them to advance through the exceptionally narrow passageway unencumbered by bulky equipment. The (extremely skilled) divers aren't wearing tanks due to how narrow some parts of the passage are. Using a thruster in a cramped environment is not a silver b…

Could it be that the route divers explored != the route the group has taken? So they might have descended using much more difficult route than the one the group took?