The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#111

Post by joezydeco » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

namibj wrote: post #53

namdnay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's a lack of attention to detail from Mini. Just a decision made with the knowledge that people don't buy premium cars based on rational decisions. If they did, I'm not sure Mini (or BMW for that matter) would exist... I don't think this is the case for airplanes.

Are there any somewhat affordable cars that skimp on the "bling" to archive this sort of efficiency?

I'm happy with my 3rd generation Mazda3.

http://images.nadaguides.com/ChromeImageGallery/Expanded/Whi...

The IVI display is out of the way but accessible (there's a jogdial on the center console to control it while driving). HVAC controls are manual and very easy to use without looking.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#112

Post by robterrell » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

My wife recently got a car with a touchscreen display that controls nearly everything and it's infuriating. You can't use it without looking away from the road. There's still a physical audio volume control and the gearshift, so if you don't ever need to use the climate controls/nav/etc it's safe. I can't imagine how dangerous the Tesla 3 might be.

It would be hilarious if Apple did make a car and everything used physical knobs and buttons because of course that's better.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#113

Post by ssebastianj » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

panic wrote: post #23

Related (from 2011): http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...

I'd also recommend "Magic Ink: Information Software And The Graphical Interface": http://worrydream.com/#!/MagicInk

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#114

Post by slantyyz » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

avoutthere wrote: post #50

This is why I will never own a Tesla Model 3. If I can't adjust the air conditioning while looking at the road, I don't want it.

>> If I can't adjust the air conditioning while looking at the road, I don't want it.

Is this even a problem on a Tesla? My 2005 Honda with climate control can do this. I rarely adjust my a/c or heat. On a super hot or cold day, it will simply try its hardest at the beginning to reach the desired temperature before settling down.

I would think a new car like a Tesla would do it even better out of the box than my aging car.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#115

Post by candiodari » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

> “The quality of the touchscreen is my fault”, he admitted, “we never tested it on the road”. Apparently the management was so convinced that the entertainment system’s blue-tinted, rectangular touchscreen interface was “the future” that the company didn’t even bother using it on the road before releasing it. After all, Tesla had recently debuted (to much acclaim), its first model which boasted a similar touchscreen system. Now that this new company’s own car was in mass production, it would take many years to undo the damage.

So management (of the car company) pushes through a choice they don't understand, without understanding the implications ... and the problem is touchscreens ?

Sorry. That's not correct.

Tesla's interface has a good cpu and is quite usable (knowing EU car manufacturers my bet is that the first problem is woefully underpowered cpu). I wouldn't say it's at peak performance yet, but it's certainly as usable as a first stab at lots of buttons would be.

This is in fact the entire premise of the entire article. Management blindly doing things because "they're the future" ... sucks.

But we all know what the real problem is as well. The opposite attitude in management ("stay with the classics") also doesn't work.

You NEED management to know the business.

No exceptions !

This is yet one more example of total management failure. It should not reflect badly on any particular interface design principle.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#116

Post by gburdell3 » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

scrooched_moose wrote: post #85

Angostura wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just bought a car (with Carplay), but I was adamant that I would only have one that had physical buttons and volume knobs on the centre console. Sat in Tesla the other day and was really surprised about how awful the UI was in terms of information heirarchy. Everything seemed to have the same weight. A sea of clickable buttons.

Can I ask which brand you went with? I'm currently looking and have already tossed out several models I otherwise really wanted.

Car people would kill me for saying this, but look at Kia and Hyundai. I drive a 2015 Forte and I think its touchscreen system makes a lot of sense. It has physical volume and seek knobs, buttons to change audio sources or show the map, and physical climate controls. Their steering wheel control layout is also one of the best I've seen.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#117

Post by brandall10 » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I just picked up a Nespresso machine - a Creatista Uno. It's a new, lower end variant of a pre-existing line of machines.

The main difference, aside from the more utilitarian finish and lower cost, is that it replaced the touchscreen of the other models with 6 buttons. The reviews have almost universally praised it as the one to get due to the speed and ease of use - of course convenience is going to rate highly with folks who are into something like Nespresso.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#118

Post by amerkhalid » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I agree, and I feel in minority too.

My current car, Subaru Outback, has groves for some common touch buttons but still hard to develop muscle memory because you cannot feel your way to right button. I hate it. Impossible to not take your eyes off the road to touch radio presets or your contacts.

Same thing with cameras, it is so much harder to use cameras with touchscreens (also I guess menus too). But manufacturers keep adding touchscreens to cameras. I Finally got Fuji x100f which has a lot of knobs and dials for easy access to common settings. It took me maybe a couple of weeks to develop muscle memory for it.

Another one of my pet peeves, I loved Kindle Keyboard with physical buttons. When it broke, I got the new Kindle Touch. I kept accidentally flipping pages. You need to hold it so that your fingers never rest on the screen, just awkward for me. I think physical buttons were great differentiator for Kindle. I returned Kindle and got iPad instead. (I know I could have gotten Kindle Oasis, but it was so expensive for what it does and I keep thinking if I will spend that much money, might as well spend a bit more and get something with extra functionality.).

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#119

Post by albedoa » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

phlo wrote: post #26

This makes you appreciate the attention to detail, and the countless painfully learnt lessons, that goes into user interface design for airplanes. Compare a Cessna 400's cockpit [1] to a switch cluster in a recent Mini [2]. The car still has physical switches, which is better than a touchscreen. It's also styled to resemble an airplane cockpit. But all the switches look the same, and some of them have two positions w…

I drive a 2011 MINI Cooper S and have owned a 2007 and a 2003. Every generation has its share of wtf when it comes to dashboard switches.

Take my biggest peeve, the blower switch on the 2011: If you press "increase" while at max blower, it stays at max blower. If you press "decrease" while at min blower, it turns off. If you press "decrease" while at off, it goes to min blower.

So you can jam the blower to max without looking, but if you overshoot on the way back down, it goes off and on again!

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#120

Post by mortenjorck » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

macintux wrote: post #110

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine because you can just turn on the Autopilot while you adjust the radio and everything will be fine.

Tesla created an interface that can only be used while driving by handing control over to software that is unable to recognize when a vehicle in front of you is at a dead stop. And everything is just fine?

I think the parent comment was intended to be facetious.