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How to get kids to pay attention

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Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#261

Post by sleepyams »

huntie wrote: post #196
TeMPOraL wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> watch commercial TV, play video games, look at nonsense on Facebook. It wouldn't be pretty Because that's all most people can do after 8-10 hours (+ commute) of soul-draining work, and then some household chores. Let's not assume that this is the default of human leisure just because it's all people have energy for after hard day of work.

NEETs might provide a strong example that this is the default of human leisure. In my experience most NEETs lament their lack of motivation. It's possible that their depression is a result of adverse societal pressure, but I posit that most humans lack the ability to structure their time without an external motivator. It's often said that pain is the best teacher, but it is also common to refer to "the carrot or the…

> While I would like to think that humans are intrinsically motivated to _do_, experience shows me that most people are content to merely consume. Technology engineered to keep us scrolling only seems to exasperate the issue.

Reminds me of the concept of interpassivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpassivity. We maybe be intrinsically motivated to _do_, but we have developed technology that can satiate this desire, e.g. watching someone else play video games on twitch.tv.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#262

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

amelius wrote: post #79
pasta1212 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend (a programmer) whose employer decided to try shortening the work day to 6 hours as long as the work still got done at the same pace. The owner was under the assumption that work will expand to take the time allotted. The experiment worked, and they still have 6 hour work days a couple years later. I think the theory that work will expand to take the time allotted is true, and I bet the motivation of g…

The problem is really that I'm the one making the time-estimations. So if I can get the work done faster, I could (in theory) go home earlier, but if it takes more time than expected, then to be fair I'd have to do night-work.

Honestly if you get your work done faster, you will probably just get more work until your schedule is full again.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#263

Post by ycombinete »

jinfiesto wrote: post #143

I often wonder whether this has a lot to do with how we treat our kids. I often catch myself acting uninterested in my daughter's interests (she's two and often wants to show me things for the 50th time that were pretty boring in the first place.) She doesn't have any attention or behavioral issues in general, but I was amazed when a friend of mine came to visit who is an early music educator. They didn't do anything…

The inverse of this, of course is the danger raising children who expect everyone to be amazed and engaged with every little thing they do or achieve.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#264

Post by huntie »

sleepyams wrote: post #261
huntie wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NEETs might provide a strong example that this is the default of human leisure. In my experience most NEETs lament their lack of motivation. It's possible that their depression is a result of adverse societal pressure, but I posit that most humans lack the ability to structure their time without an external motivator. It's often said that pain is the best teacher, but it is also common to refer to "the carrot or the…

> While I would like to think that humans are intrinsically motivated to _do_, experience shows me that most people are content to merely consume. Technology engineered to keep us scrolling only seems to exasperate the issue. Reminds me of the concept of interpassivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpassivity . We maybe be intrinsically motivated to _do_, but we have developed technology that can satiate this de…

I hadn't heard of interpassivity before. It's an interesting concept and I think that it fits my own experience. Interpassivity is truthy.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#265

Post by Mutangama »

ycombinete wrote: post #263
jinfiesto wrote: post #143

I often wonder whether this has a lot to do with how we treat our kids. I often catch myself acting uninterested in my daughter's interests (she's two and often wants to show me things for the 50th time that were pretty boring in the first place.) She doesn't have any attention or behavioral issues in general, but I was amazed when a friend of mine came to visit who is an early music educator. They didn't do anything…

The inverse of this, of course is the danger raising children who expect everyone to be amazed and engaged with every little thing they do or achieve.

Good point. I think all these engagements have to be done with an eye into the future personality of the child. My friend works with a girl who expects everything to be done for her (including asking the security lady to get two frozen chickens from the office fridge to her car). So should kids be treated the same way different people would treat them in life (with the exception of being abusive of course).

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#266

Post by Mutangama »

samplesizeme wrote: post #151
jinfiesto wrote: post #143

I often wonder whether this has a lot to do with how we treat our kids. I often catch myself acting uninterested in my daughter's interests (she's two and often wants to show me things for the 50th time that were pretty boring in the first place.) She doesn't have any attention or behavioral issues in general, but I was amazed when a friend of mine came to visit who is an early music educator. They didn't do anything…

My perspective shifted over time as I watched children become teens, then adults, and marvelling at how I thought of them changed. It sounds lame, but I came to think of kids a people too vs just children. As in they are adults whose brains haven't finished wiring themselves and they deserve not just to be treated with respect, but also to be thought of respectfully. It's obvious to me now, I mean I can remember how…

I was just explaining what you have said to someone two weeks ago! Am actually a Sunday school teacher. If you treat the kids as you would other people I think you help improve "the wiring". They become mature and intelligent faster than their friends who are treated as lesser humans.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#267

Post by jogjayr »

mhb wrote: post #47
nickjj wrote: post #5

What's really interesting to me is this same thing can be applied to adults too. The article writes: > For starters, he says, ask your kid this question: 'What would you do if you didn't have to do anything else?' I often wonder what civilization would be like if adults asked the same question to themselves and then lead a life where they focused on that instead of being pressured into "making a living".

Is this really so hard to figure out? Very few people would do things which are useful to keep civilization running if they have a choice. Look at what people do with their leisure time - watch commercial TV, play video games, look at nonsense on Facebook. It wouldn't be pretty.

a) Why is that a bad thing? It's bad for the people themselves but arguably it's not terrible for society as a whole. Better than those people going out and getting into trouble, for instance.

b) I imagine that in a world without meaningful work, having meaningful hobbies might be seen as trendy. Just like eating poorly and being unfit signal low social status today, being a media-consuming couch potato would be considered low-class.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#268

Post by TeMPOraL »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #204
golergka wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how come that's what most of jobless people do, too?

Jobless people are often stressed.

Jobless people aren't often just jobless. They're stay-at-home moms. They're people on disability. They're people with medical or mental conditions. They're people stuck in welfare trap - they get just enough money to make it not profitable to work (they'd lose it if they went to work, but no entry-level job will pay them more than the amount they get from welfare), but not enough to support any creative hobby. Or they have jobs - on the grey/black market, so that they can get both benefits and some shit untaxed pay.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#269

Post by ryan-allen »

jaggederest wrote: post #182
imesh wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's something you have to solve, it will happen naturally. All kids do this and most tend to stop by adulthood.

It's also usually not the thing itself that they are valuing. It's the interaction. She wants you to read the same book to her because she knows that you do the voices and act it out and she gets to interact. That's the point. If you ask them, they'll tell you what they value. You don't have to think your way around them, they know, even by the time they're 3 or so. People have desires, and they can tell you what the…

Hm, I obviously don't get this kid thing. I'll try harder!

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#270

Post by rimliu »

s-shellfish wrote: post #233
rimliu wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better to be addicted to video games than heroin, right? Only in terms of your physical health. Otherwise iirc addiction is defined as having negative effect on your life (work, social, personal) so it is as bad. > At least video games can teach modular reasoning. Which will be used only for games, because you are not interested in anything else?

> Which will be used only for games, because you are not interested in anything else? Or programming, having a job you have passion for and are good at, being able to produce work people see value in, sustaining yourself, you know, not living in a gutter and stuff dying of a heroin overdose? > Only in terms of your physical health. Otherwise iirc addiction is defined as having negative effect on your life (work, soci…

I am not talking about liking games and gaming. I am talking about addiction.
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