The only solution to this is signed live lifecasting to a blockchain for every person on earth. I'm only half kidding.
How about a sort of steganographic signing with assemytric cryptography.
High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
61–70 of 70 posts
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem isn't so much that fake videos will be used to lie. It's that valid video evidence can be dismissed as Fake News with some credibility. This could be bad for the overall definition of "truth". Video of the Prime Minister/President taking bribes? Eh, you can't trust these videos these days!
In the court of public opinion, yes, this is true - video is no longer proof that something happened. I guess that's a price we pay for technological progress. Presumably at some point it will be possible (and easy and accessible) to generate body fluids with someone else's DNA in them, at which point DNA evidence will suffer a similar hit. In a court of law, presumably video will now be subject to the same scrutiny…
Right. Evidence is more than a singular "smoking gun" photo or video. You typically rely on a whole collection of corroborating evidence to build a case.
It's the court of public opinion that worries me. That court is very important to the functioning of a liberal democracy. If the facts themselves are always open to suspicion, a society cannot defend itself very well against tyranny.
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#63I have to agree that this will be inevitable. Fake videos _will_ be created to spread misinformation. I bring you no solutions. Our best programmatic tool for these kinds of video analysis is currently the exact same technology that enables it in the first place. Furthermore, any neural network that can detect fake videos will only be used adversarially to train a better deep fake creator! The only solution I see is…
The best solution (IMO of course) is to stop unquestionably believing anything you see, read, or hear. Why most people choose otherwise has saddened me since childhood. The worst solution is to panic and attempt to ban technology like this insuring that only the bad actors will use it. I want everyone down to kids to be able to make fake videos to their little heart's content so we can all internalize this inevitable…
| The best solution (IMO of course) is to stop unquestionably believing anything you see, read, or hear. Why most people choose otherwise has saddened me since childhood.
Agreed, but I think it's been long proven most people do. People hear what they want to hear. Maybe that will change, but I'd say it seems unlikely at this point.
| he worst solution is to panic and attempt to ban technology like this insuring that only the bad actors will use it.
Very true.
| I want everyone down to kids to be able to make fake videos to their little heart's content so we can all internalize this inevitable Black Mirrorization of reality.
Increasingly getting there. It only takes one person to make a nice GUI, post it to github.
| How will people cope with a world like this?
Probably poorly if history has taught us anything.
| It is almost like we need pop art and pop culture to drive this point home before political mass media does it in the worst possible way.
Very intriguing. Traditionally, art and culture change as a reaction to current affairs, as opposed to a pre-emption. I'm not sure how to pragmatically flip that paradigm.
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#64Deepfakes are surely no more a "problem" than photoshopped still images? Everyone knows that a still image can be altered to (convincingly) depict something that never happened. So, a still image is not considered good evidence of anything unless it has a verifiable provenance, chain of custody etc. Presumably that wasn't always the case, but now that photo editing tech is universally accessible, we all know we can't…
The volume alone might be a problem. It takes some Photoshop skills to pull off an acceptable fake. If there's a turnkey website that can spit them out en masse, that's something different than having to actually hire a human to do it by hand. Previously it took at least one CGI artist to convincingly fake video, probably several. This inherently limits how much of a problem it can be, because it doesn't scale. AI sc…
I would think that the same tech you can use to graft a face onto a person in a video could be used to do it on a still.
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...as long as everyone knows its all fake, There's a shockingly large number of people who aren't even convinced that election meddling took place in 2016, or that propaganda was disseminated to many people on social media, despite unanimity from US intelligence. If we as a society can't all agree that these things even happened, how can we hope to properly educate people on the existence/prevalence of fake video?…
US intelligence doesn't enjoy a reputation for trustworthiness, to put it mildly. But if people can just go online, upload a video and get back a "hilarious" deepfake, that's an irrefutable demonstration that video-meddling is easy and widely-available, isn't it? They can literally see for themselves how accessible the faking tech is.
Text can be convincingly faked at scale. Most meme images are widely reused photos. We do have Snopes and other fact-checkers, but it's only a partial solution.
And yet, fake news does seem to be a problem. Checking provenance of facts and statistics is often skipped, even by journalists, let alone on Twitter.
This suggests that people will have lots of fun resharing deep fakes and won't care much that they're fake, as long as they express some emotion that they agree with.
Give people a fake that they want to believe in, and it's going to be very hard to talk them out of it.
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#66I have to agree that this will be inevitable. Fake videos _will_ be created to spread misinformation. I bring you no solutions. Our best programmatic tool for these kinds of video analysis is currently the exact same technology that enables it in the first place. Furthermore, any neural network that can detect fake videos will only be used adversarially to train a better deep fake creator! The only solution I see is…
Doctored audio and video isn't really a new problem though. More prosaically, you could just redact a recording to give a misleading impression and not rely on any fancy technology.
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#67I have to agree that this will be inevitable. Fake videos _will_ be created to spread misinformation. I bring you no solutions. Our best programmatic tool for these kinds of video analysis is currently the exact same technology that enables it in the first place. Furthermore, any neural network that can detect fake videos will only be used adversarially to train a better deep fake creator! The only solution I see is…
The last 20 years certain elements have been pushing distrust and hatred for both politicians and journalists. However I'd hope that we move to some agreed standard of signing of videos, so their source can be confirmed by the player. It doesn't matter if that source is the bbc, washington post, alex jones, national enquirer, the onion, or "Bob Joe Billy-Bob the Third", it means you know where the video came from, an…
My issue is that I don’t think I know of a news org that I trust to be both ethical and correct enough that their banner would matter enough for a significant video.
CBS and Dan Rather takes documents months before the 2004 election [0] and Rather still have 400k+ twitter followers. Even BBC didn’t cover the Iraq War properly when we really needed it to [1].
I read news for opinion and some awareness. But I’d trust a video of Trump strangling a hobo about the same from BBC as TMZ and would need a lot of verification.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killian_documents_controversy [1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3890821.stm
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#68Anyone know where deepfakes moved to? It was great seeing what was going on in /r/deepfakes but due to the "offensive nature" of some of the videos that subreddit was killed. Anyone know the best place to watch and observe the latest happenings in the scene?
Good question, I was just waiting for the all Nicolas Cage version of LotR
It’s a bit of a pain to follow progress without the subreddit, but progress is still being made- https://youtu.be/QhxTTshL3b0
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#69I have to agree that this will be inevitable. Fake videos _will_ be created to spread misinformation. I bring you no solutions. Our best programmatic tool for these kinds of video analysis is currently the exact same technology that enables it in the first place. Furthermore, any neural network that can detect fake videos will only be used adversarially to train a better deep fake creator! The only solution I see is…
> the amount of cooperation we'd need between camera makers and video distribution platforms Apple could single-handedly launch a "verified video" system.
Dear Tim,
Please build this.
— everyone
Re: High-tech deception of ‘deepfake’ videos
#70Deepfakes are surely no more a "problem" than photoshopped still images? Everyone knows that a still image can be altered to (convincingly) depict something that never happened. So, a still image is not considered good evidence of anything unless it has a verifiable provenance, chain of custody etc. Presumably that wasn't always the case, but now that photo editing tech is universally accessible, we all know we can't…
I think your faith in the public to be discerning is hopelessly naive. The evidence is all around us that people just don’t care. You don’t even need to photoshop images anymore, just write down a few specially-crafted words and people just run with it. Altered images go largely undetected by the vast majority of people, and video will be even worse. Video just has a truth to it way more than any other medium.