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Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

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Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#81

Post by kevinqiu1 »

Spivak wrote: post #37

Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and a market which seems obvious but isn't really there. There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly people riding bikes but it's always their own bike. Complicat…

I'll just add to this thread that a large % of Citibike members in NYC are also owners of personal bicycles (like myself - unfortunately can't find source atm). My personal use case for Citibike are short/moderate length trips(1-4 mile) in the city core (Manhattan) where public transportation is unwieldy. Depending on your origin and destination, what is a 10/20 mins ride on a Citibike is easily a 30/40 mins ride on public transit (walking to stations, if you need to change trains to get to the destination. As for taxis and ridehailing, unless you're taking a ride in the middle of the night, traffic will also make your trip longer than biking. A bike can often reach the top speed of traffic in the city and you have the added ability to pass long lines of cars. This doesn't even take into account that Citibike costs 10$ a month, that's likely the cost of one trip if I were to take a car. And something no one has mentioned, buses, are notoriously slow in Manhattan and don't come nearly frequently enough to be of use in most cases.

There aren't even any Citibike docks near where I live but the utility in the city core is almost unmatched. Obviously there are situations where bike(+ bike shares) are less than ideal (ridership goes down in winter/rain/hot days/ect., disabled users) but they are a great boon to the mobility of people living in dense cities.

Some interesting reads: http://toddwschneider.com/posts/taxi-vs-citi-bike-nyc/ http://toddwschneider.com/posts/a-tale-of-twenty-two-million...

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#82

Post by boxcardavin »

NorthOf33rd wrote: post #8
aventrix wrote: post #5

How does the popularity of bikes compare to electric scooters? Anecdotally, I see a lot more Bird and Lime S scooters flying around than I do bicycles these days - and we do have docked bicycle and Lime bikes and Ofo options available in my city. Having tried many of these services, I find the electric scooters to be the most enjoyable, although the electric bikes are quite fun too and can be a better experience if y…

Bird just opened in SLC and they are suddenly everywhere. Park City, just a few miles away, launched the country's first ebike share system and it's wildly popular. They are also everywhere. I have no hard data to prove this, though I'm sure it's out there- I don't think it's bike vs scooter, it's electric vs human powered that's driving bird's popularity over bike shares.

I think you're exactly right. I'm a pretty hardcore cyclist and I commute 20 miles total every day but the number of people willing to exert massive effort for their commute is super small. My company is working on self-delivering shared ebikes and we recently made the decision to include a throttle because most folks won't ever be capital-B Bikers.

The scooters have been a good lesson for us as they've highlighted the importance of fun and friendliness in a shared vehicle. I don't think any of the shared ebikes are coming close to the right combination of factors that make people want to ride them. Scooters have nailed it, but their big problem is how easy it is to copy the model.

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#83

Post by pj_mukh »

dyarosla wrote: post #64
usaar333 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you find that electric bikes work better for longer trips?

deleted

Close. Less likely I'm gonna hit one of

a) Potholes

b) Uphill (where the electric bikes fare much better)

The scooters are just much less of a hassle (no need to lock etc.) for quick rides and more fun

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#84

Post by umeshunni »

pj_mukh wrote: post #29
aventrix wrote: post #5

How does the popularity of bikes compare to electric scooters? Anecdotally, I see a lot more Bird and Lime S scooters flying around than I do bicycles these days - and we do have docked bicycle and Lime bikes and Ofo options available in my city. Having tried many of these services, I find the electric scooters to be the most enjoyable, although the electric bikes are quite fun too and can be a better experience if y…

For me, it breaks down to: 0-2miles - Scooters (or walk), 2-5miles - Electric Bikes (or Uber), 5-15miles - Uber/Lyft It is a nice little transportation stack Uber and Lyft are fighting over.

I think Scooters are ideal for the ~1 mile range.

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#86

Post by onemoresoop »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #13
elvirs wrote: post #10

I wish they went after electric bikes or scooters. Not everyone feels like spinning pedals in the heat or cold after long day at work.

E-bikes are motor vehicles and can't be used on bike paths in NY state though they are street legal if registered. NYC park police actively ticket E-bikes on the west side.

How would one ticket an ebike since they have no registration or license numbers?

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#87

Post by pj_mukh »

ebikelaw wrote: post #75
pj_mukh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it breaks down to: 0-2miles - Scooters (or walk), 2-5miles - Electric Bikes (or Uber), 5-15miles - Uber/Lyft It is a nice little transportation stack Uber and Lyft are fighting over.

No room for buses, trains, or regular bicycles? The nice thing about a regular bicycle is the unlimited range. Whereas the nice thing about an electric bike is the speed. My personal hierarchy is more like this: 0-1 miles: walk 1-10 miles: e-bike or bus or lyft 10-100 miles: regular bike or train > 100 miles: car

I love taking trains. BART is my jam.

Buses being at the whim of traffic while costing only 15-20% less than Uber Express for 5-10miles while offering none of the live-information means its a no-go for me.

I've spent far too long waiting in various weather conditions, hoping the bus arrives on time. So even up to a 30-40% premium to just hop into a car makes sense to me.

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#88

Post by donarb »

jaredsohn wrote: post #3
godzillabrennus wrote: post #2

If they can offer these without the inconvenient docking stations it’ll be a much more popular transportation option.

The docking stations are convenient in some ways because you know where to go to find a bike and you can feel good that you're not leaving it in a place that is in the way.

All the bikes in Seattle (Lime, Ofo and Spin) are dockless and GPS tracked so you can find a bike anytime using their app.

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#89

Post by woolvalley »

Spivak wrote: post #37

Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and a market which seems obvious but isn't really there. There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly people riding bikes but it's always their own bike. Complicat…

Unit economics make sense, since you don't have to pay a human for every trip.

A $500 scooter, with about a $2-$3 charge per trip breaks even in 166-250 trips, which is about 83 days if there are 3 trips a day. So in 2-3 months the devices pay for themselves. Yes there is vandalism and paying chargers, but the general principle stays about the same. And if you have bikes then you don't need chargers, just occasional collectors. If the scooters last for 1000 trips, then you have 750 trips of 'pure profit'.

Something like a $1000 heavy duty bike will cost more initially, but will last for many more trips.

Carrying a bike/scooter on the bus or subway is annoying, even when it's a 15lbs electric skateboard.

Re: Lyft Follows Uber Into Bike-Sharing Lane, Buying Owner of CitiBike

#90

Post by apendleton »

Spivak wrote: post #37

Can someone explain the economics of services like this? I just get the feeling that these bike-sharing services are running on a good sales pitch and a market which seems obvious but isn't really there. There are probably four or five competing services in my city and yet I have never actually seen a single person actually riding them. There are certainly people riding bikes but it's always their own bike. Complicat…

The DC system (the first large-scale system operated by what's now Motivate in the US) has been wildly successful. Most people use it for short-ish trips, and I think it's especially popular for last-mile trips from transit, and for tourists. Many DC residents who use it, myself included, do also own their own bikes, but maintain a membership to bikeshare because it's cheap, and useful in situations where you only want to bike in one direction, or are biking to the Metro and don't want to bring your bike on the train, etc. But very few locals pay per trip -- the per-trip prices are mostly set with tourists in mind and they subsidize the service for everybody else.

Also, vandalism, of either the bikes or the stations, has not been a serious concern, and they've been operating for almost a decade at this point. The construction of both is extremely sturdy, unlike most of the dockless entrants.

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