With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster • Hacker News Board

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#31

Post by icedchai » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #17

I haven't read the whole article (paywalled), but I wonder if the honors losing their luster is more about a low correlation between high GPA and professional success (at least in STEM careers). I've been involved in hiring and for recent grads we will look at transcripts, but GPA as a factor isn't weighted very highly. I'm much more interested in hearing a candidate talk about their senior project or personal projec…

You're lucky if they even look at GPA or transcripts for your first job.

College is the new high school.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#32

Post by cirgue » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

recharged93 wrote: post #24

Do grades even matter anymore? Unless you're applying to a gov't job, you're connections, friends, professors that like you, github accounts, art or MBA portfolio are the tools that move you "up" in the world. And in that order. Online education dilutes GPA too. As well as more tech skill degrees (devops certs), aka those were called trade/vocational schools in my day. I've never seen a GPA on an intern application/r…

GPA, in my experience, seems to map exactly onto your ability to wrangle a good GPA. That set of skills is largely orthogonal to solving hard problems or making useful contributions to a team.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#33

Post by shusson » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

recharged93 wrote: post #24

Do grades even matter anymore? Unless you're applying to a gov't job, you're connections, friends, professors that like you, github accounts, art or MBA portfolio are the tools that move you "up" in the world. And in that order. Online education dilutes GPA too. As well as more tech skill degrees (devops certs), aka those were called trade/vocational schools in my day. I've never seen a GPA on an intern application/r…

yeah in software this might make some sense, but say you want to become a doctor... I don't imagine a github profile is going to move you "up" in the world :p

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#34

Post by cirgue » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #25

tfigment wrote: post #11

Still only matters for first job and then if you have nothing else to show. As a hiring manager, its a minus for me to see unless its for intern. But surprising how often i see on cvs. (Speaking as former top of ChE class and frequent outlier to be removed on grading curves.)

How can good grades ever be a minus?

If you have to use it as a selling point, it means you don't have more compelling things to show.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#35

Post by matachuan » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

Welcome to Purdue then

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#36

Post by vkou » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

recharged93 wrote: post #24

Do grades even matter anymore? Unless you're applying to a gov't job, you're connections, friends, professors that like you, github accounts, art or MBA portfolio are the tools that move you "up" in the world. And in that order. Online education dilutes GPA too. As well as more tech skill degrees (devops certs), aka those were called trade/vocational schools in my day. I've never seen a GPA on an intern application/r…

> Unless you're applying to a gov't job, you're connections, friends, professors that like you, github accounts, art or MBA portfolio are the tools that move you "up" in the world. And in that order.

Letting high-grade overachieves who don't have connections, or well-placed friends, advance into the ranks of the elite is how the elite keep themselves relevant.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#37

Post by vkou » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

protonimitate wrote: post #29

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can good grades ever be a minus?

I think he's saying that if you are applying to a job and have more than 0 experience, you shouldn't be relying on your GPA as a selling point. And I agree - GPA is pretty irrelevant to anything in the business world. All it proves is that you can play by the rules in the school system - not a real indication of your experience, skills, or relevant knowledge.

Success in much of the business world requires you to play by the rules of the business system, which may be as capricious, arbitrary, pointless, stupid, and orthogonal to relevant knowledge [1], as success in the school system.

For every hiring manager who takes the approach that anyone putting their GPA on their resume is an asshole or an idiot, there's three others who think that there's something wrong with a junior applicant who doesn't put their GPA on their resume.

Unless you tell the applicant what you want to see, they have no idea which of these two hiring managers you might be. Instead of downmarking people for having the audacity to present this information to you, perhaps you could just ignore it?

[1] Which the hiring manager in this thread has unironically demonstrated.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#38

Post by Retric » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #25

tfigment wrote: post #11

Still only matters for first job and then if you have nothing else to show. As a hiring manager, its a minus for me to see unless its for intern. But surprising how often i see on cvs. (Speaking as former top of ChE class and frequent outlier to be removed on grading curves.)

How can good grades ever be a minus?

Yes, I have seen a 4.0 taken as a negative sign for people that are overly focused on following the rules. Less common is some people have a GPA limit and will not higher people over it. That limit can be as low as 3.2 in one case.

This more for undergrad as most people are expected to pull a ~3.8-4.0 in grad school making the number meaningless.

PS: On average I suspect it's a net gain for your first job, but adding a GPA after that is likely a larger risk than you might think.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#39

Post by hitekker » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 3:02 PM UTC

For college students, I absolutely recommend transferring up if your GPA is above 3.8 and you're attending a lower-tier school.

Your alma mater will resonate throughout your career. Your GPA will disappear after your first or second job.

Better to get a C at MIT than an A at RPI.

Re: With more students boasting flashy GPAs, academic honors lose their luster

#40

Post by pc86 » Mon, Jul 02, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #25

tfigment wrote: post #11

Still only matters for first job and then if you have nothing else to show. As a hiring manager, its a minus for me to see unless its for intern. But surprising how often i see on cvs. (Speaking as former top of ChE class and frequent outlier to be removed on grading curves.)

How can good grades ever be a minus?

They're not a minus in and of themselves. But more than a few hiring managers will prefer someone who obviously worked hard and has a transcript that moves from a B/B+ average to A's the last several years than someone who has an A in every class they're ever taken. If you're not going into academia or research it's much less important that you be a genius and much more important that you're willing and able to put in work over months or years to achieve an objective.