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How to get kids to pay attention

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Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#221

Post by melbourne_mat »

jinfiesto wrote: post #143

I often wonder whether this has a lot to do with how we treat our kids. I often catch myself acting uninterested in my daughter's interests (she's two and often wants to show me things for the 50th time that were pretty boring in the first place.) She doesn't have any attention or behavioral issues in general, but I was amazed when a friend of mine came to visit who is an early music educator. They didn't do anything…

If she goes on and on about the same thing, to me that seems like she wants your approval. Give it but also try to gently direct her to do something different?

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#222

Post by wilsonnb2 »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #192
robbrown451 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree except for the idea that hardware and software being locked somehow prevents creative activities. If you want to do programming, you can do a huge amount just using browser APIs (and that is kind of nice because it is very easy to share what you do by sending people a link). You can do graphics (canvas, svg, webgl), audio, and so many other things. But to use a computer creatively you don't have to be a progr…

Three problem with locked-down software and hardware is that it is the environment. An immutable environment leaves no room for creativity. Sure, you can go find an open environment, but when I was growing up, I was already there; and that made all the difference. I didn't need a mentor to introduce me. I was free to stumble into the world of software via my own interests.

That's just not true. Plenty of creativity is available in immutable environments. Working around limitations is a key factor of creativity in my opinion.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#223

Post by TomMarius »

chongli wrote: post #215
TomMarius wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it bring someone's life in line with everyone else when they're still unable to buy the things other people can buy? Do you realise that once the cleaner is more expensive than a Japanese toilet is to maintain, the cleaner will be fired and will have nothing instead?

So the toilet cleaner retrains to become the toilet repair person? What's wrong with that? We all get better toilets out of the deal, too. The public bathroom still needs cleaning itself, though. Unless you're suggesting that a Japanese toilet is a robot that cleans the whole bathroom? That would be interesting!

> So the toilet cleaner retrains to become the toilet repair person?

I once had a summer job as a manager of this issue - my job was to find a cleaning company and assure quality in one company building (roughly 500 toilets, around 30 cleaners). From my experience, these people were unable to properly do their jobs (not the cleaning part, stuff like opening windows so the toilet doesn't smell like acid and actually dries, not forgetting to clean something...). None of these people would be able to or would want to invest the time to learn to repair the incredibly complex Japanese toilets - they will rather live on welfare. Of course it's anecdotal and I'm sure that a lot of people will do just what you said - most certainly not everyone though, and there won't even be place for everyone, rather like every hundredth at most.

> Unless you're suggesting that a Japanese toilet is a robot that cleans the whole bathroom?

Yes, there are "toilet boxes" that can clean the whole thing including floor, ceiling and walls.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#224

Post by JoeAltmaier »

chongli wrote: post #215
TomMarius wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it bring someone's life in line with everyone else when they're still unable to buy the things other people can buy? Do you realise that once the cleaner is more expensive than a Japanese toilet is to maintain, the cleaner will be fired and will have nothing instead?

So the toilet cleaner retrains to become the toilet repair person? What's wrong with that? We all get better toilets out of the deal, too. The public bathroom still needs cleaning itself, though. Unless you're suggesting that a Japanese toilet is a robot that cleans the whole bathroom? That would be interesting!

Futile - one repairman needed for every N cleaners. Same with all automation - in fact its the entire point of automation - its cheaper to use machines that require very little human intervention including repair, than humans, to do some job. Until that's true in fact, robots aren't used because they aren't cheaper. In a total cost of ownership sense.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#225

Post by Broken_Hippo »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #161
Kluny wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think there are more people than you think who would be perfectly happy to clean toilets as their contribution, so long as they were compensated fairly for it.

Isn't that the entire point of the free market? To find the price that incentivizes the necessary level of production of a good/service? The alternative is a central authority setting prices, which has historically had disastrous results.

Well, in romantic theory, yes. But unfortunately, society doesn't value folks that clean toilets and folks that clean toilets need income to buy food, shelter, and other things. The balance of power seriously works against the person cleaning toilets, and they have no real power over the wages they are paid.

The market forces that determine pay are more competition between folks that hire others to clean toilets. If all of your competitors pay twice as much as you, you might not have quality employees... or any at all, if a job is readily available. If you have a lot of folks desperate for income, you can pay less. If there are few folks that are willing to clean toilets, you probably pay more. You could go without folks to clean toilets, but your average Western accountant probably isn't going to clean the office toilets or breakroom willingly unless it becomes standard for office jobs everywhere. Many places simply cannot leave dirty facilities - and in some jobs, you probably would rather have separate staff cleaning (hospitals, for example).

Luckily, there are a lot of levels between "unregulated, free-market-will-take-care-of-it" and complete control from a central authority. Minimum wages, worker rights, workplace safety, safety nets that ensure less desperate people, and so on.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#226

Post by Omnus »

herrokan wrote: post #97
oblio wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toilets built by the underemployed pilots and actors? :)

You know not everyone is interested in becoming a pilot or an actor, right?

You know you're missing the point, right? There are some jobs that people just don't tend to enjoy or find meaningful. You can incentive people to do them by paying them lots of money, but that doesn't necessarily make people happy or fulfilled while doing the work, which was the original topic of this discussion.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#227

Post by delecti »

ben0x539 wrote: post #121
s4vi0r wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't spank your kids. It has no benefit, and many negative effects.

It's incredible that we still have to discuss this in 2018.

Not really. Thousands (tends/hundreds of thousands?) of years of human society isn't going to just evaporate from a couple studies, even if they're incontrovertible.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#228

Post by rimliu »

geomark wrote: post #178
s4vi0r wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't spank your kids. It has no benefit, and many negative effects.

Indeed. I was spanked as a child (I was very stubborn and looking back it's clear that nothing else really worked with me). As a result, I suffer from a condition known as respect for others. It's a terrible affliction to have in this day and age.

Alas, "others" most likely do not include kids.

I am so glad that in my country physical abuse of the child is a punishable offense.

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#229

Post by rimliu »

s-shellfish wrote: post #137
maltalex wrote: post #4

> For starters, he says, ask your kid this question: 'What would you do if you didn't have to do anything else?' In the western world the answer to that question is often some addictive activity such as playing video games, or watching videos on youtube.

Do we have to call it an addiction? A video game is an immersive experience that allows an individual to effectively sync into a state of flow detached from reality. If reality is chaotic and stressful and reinforces that sentiment from all directions to yield those internal feelings of agony, it seems obvious that anything that can alleviate such agony would be immediately ran to. Better to be addicted to video game…

   > Better to be addicted to video games than heroin, right?
Only in terms of your physical health. Otherwise iirc addiction is defined as having negative effect on your life (work, social, personal) so it is as bad.

  > At least video games can teach modular reasoning.
Which will be used only for games, because you are not interested in anything else?

Re: How to get kids to pay attention

#230

Post by ericb »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #166
unit91 wrote: post #109

I have 6 kids, and I've found it's pretty simple to get kids to pay attention (or anything else). Be consistent, and willing to discipline if necessary. Here's the order I follow: 1. Polite request 2. Polite command 3. Stern command 4. Warning 5. Push-ups 6. Spanking They know I love them and because of that love obedience is required. Situations rarely escalate past step 2, and step 6 is memorable. ETA: for anything…

Spanking is child abuse, there's a ton of evidence backing that up, stop doing it.

While I don't practice it, and think it backfires, calling spanking abuse in order to shame its practitioners is an exaggeration that helps neither the abused, nor the parents you wish to stop the practice.
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