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The physics of baking good pizza

arxiv.org

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Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#31

Post by azylman »

emmelaich wrote: post #24
tigershark wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Frozen pizza is awful 2) To properly bake a pizza you need 350/400 C 3) Normal electrical ovens arrive to 220/240 C and the pizza becomes dry and crunchy 4) If you put a frozen pizza in a cold oven it will always be burnt because by the time the inside is cooked the outside has become overcooked and burnt 5) Please don’t make me cry writing pizza misadventures :’(

Portable bench-top pizza "ovens" do amazingly well. They have a heated stone base and large electrical elements in the lid. You have to be careful not to cook it too fast -- you turn it right down between pizzas. Downside is they only do one at a time but that's usually fine. [edit - the one we have is very similar to this: New Wave NWKA 1200W Stone Bake Just Pizza Maker (Red) ]

That only gets up to 280C it looks like, at that point it's not really any different than an oven with a pizza stone

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#32

Post by jacques_chester »

mahesh_rm wrote: post #17
Jupe wrote: post #14

My Pizza Rules (not that anyone asked, but...) 1. Don't "Moat" your pizza. The barren expanse of dried sauce and over-sized crust is the classic sign of "moating" the pizza. Spread the majority of the toppings as close to the edge as you'd like your crust to be, and reduce the amount of toppings (cheese, sauce, etc.) at the center. As the pizza cooks, the crust will rise, and the toppings will naturally flow to the c…

"You can put a touch of sugar in the dough, or you can put a touch of sugar in the sauce, but don't put it in both. Corollary: If you put pineapple or other sweet toppings on the pie, don't put any sugar in the sauce or dough." As an Italian, I feel the urge to jump in here. Sugar in dough is used to kickoff/boost yeast levitation, while sugar in sauce is used to affect tomato acidity. In both cases, they are not int…

The American concept of "a touch of sugar" is different from most places', so for that audience the advice is pretty sound.

I moved to the USA from Australia. If I want bread that doesn't taste like cake, I actually have to bake it myself.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#33

Post by bobbybroadcast »

makmanalp wrote: post #23
elorant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to 2 is to get a special pot made out of stone that you place in the oven and it accumulates heat. After 30 minutes it has the necessary temperature and then you place the pizza on top of it.

Or a pizza steel which I've wanted to try forever: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki... ... not a perfect neapolitan but looks good enough for me.

My wife and I just made 4 pizzas on this last night. It is great but the edges around the pizza were golden brown and not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias. I am convinced now more than ever that the dough is the critical procedural element we were getting wrong. She used a 1 hour dough where even the pizza steel recommends a 72 hour one. Needless to say, she has one in the proofer for Wednesday night.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#34

Post by azylman »

tiatia123 wrote: post #12

Baking good pizza should be mainly about chemistry, not physics. The taste comes from the Maillard readction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction Since I don't see this mentioned in the paper I assume it is mostly bullshit. PS: This reaction is the reason why you can't substitute sugar with Stevia

That's very important in cooking in general, but is definitely not the most important part of baking pizza. Heat transfer is a lot more important, that's why different cooking surfaces (e.g. stone vs. steel) can yield dramatically different pizzas, even at the same temperature. You're going to get a maillard reaction no matter what.

https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki...

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#35

Post by maxerickson »

jacques_chester wrote: post #32
mahesh_rm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can put a touch of sugar in the dough, or you can put a touch of sugar in the sauce, but don't put it in both. Corollary: If you put pineapple or other sweet toppings on the pie, don't put any sugar in the sauce or dough." As an Italian, I feel the urge to jump in here. Sugar in dough is used to kickoff/boost yeast levitation, while sugar in sauce is used to affect tomato acidity. In both cases, they are not int…

The American concept of "a touch of sugar" is different from most places', so for that audience the advice is pretty sound. I moved to the USA from Australia. If I want bread that doesn't taste like cake, I actually have to bake it myself.

Have you tried buying bakery bread?

Lots of them simply don't contain sugar at all. Really.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#36

Post by toomanybeersies »

tigershark wrote: post #18
numbol wrote: post #13

This post encouraged me to make account and leave a comment after couple years of read-only /sorry for bad english/ Long ago, in yearly middle-school time I am argue with friends about optimum(by combined simplicity and taste score) way to bake frozen pizza, and all about with electric heating oven VS microwave. After some time oven was chosen, but I thinked that made oven pre-heaten was waste of time and try to appr…

1) Frozen pizza is awful 2) To properly bake a pizza you need 350/400 C 3) Normal electrical ovens arrive to 220/240 C and the pizza becomes dry and crunchy 4) If you put a frozen pizza in a cold oven it will always be burnt because by the time the inside is cooked the outside has become overcooked and burnt 5) Please don’t make me cry writing pizza misadventures :’(

I've actually had some really good frozen pizzas. The best ones I ever had were actually $4 frozen pizzas from the supermarket that were made in Italy. I'm not sure how they made a pizza in Italy and shipped it to NZ and managed to sell it for $4, but they were great, or at least the quattro fromaggio ones were. The ones with any frozen vegetables like mushrooms were sort of crap, the mushrooms went all watery.

In my experience with frozen pizza, the ones with less ingredients are better. Any frozen vegetables will go watery, so your options are really pepperoni or plain cheese. You want a pizza with a nice thin base

Let the pizza defrost for a little bit with the wrapper off before you put it in the oven, then blast it in the oven at maximum temperature.

It helps if you put the pizza on a pizza stone or on a rack, rather than on a tray. If it's on a tray, the bottom tends to get soggy.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#37

Post by makmanalp »

bobbybroadcast wrote: post #33
makmanalp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a pizza steel which I've wanted to try forever: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki... ... not a perfect neapolitan but looks good enough for me.

My wife and I just made 4 pizzas on this last night. It is great but the edges around the pizza were golden brown and not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias. I am convinced now more than ever that the dough is the critical procedural element we were getting wrong. She used a 1 hour dough where even the pizza steel recommends a 72 hour one. Needless to say, she has one in the proofer for Wednesday night.

> not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias

Yes, aside from high heat the cold ferment step seems to play a big role: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2010/09/the-pizza-lab-how-long...

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#38

Post by chapium »

tigershark wrote: post #18
numbol wrote: post #13

This post encouraged me to make account and leave a comment after couple years of read-only /sorry for bad english/ Long ago, in yearly middle-school time I am argue with friends about optimum(by combined simplicity and taste score) way to bake frozen pizza, and all about with electric heating oven VS microwave. After some time oven was chosen, but I thinked that made oven pre-heaten was waste of time and try to appr…

1) Frozen pizza is awful 2) To properly bake a pizza you need 350/400 C 3) Normal electrical ovens arrive to 220/240 C and the pizza becomes dry and crunchy 4) If you put a frozen pizza in a cold oven it will always be burnt because by the time the inside is cooked the outside has become overcooked and burnt 5) Please don’t make me cry writing pizza misadventures :’(

Preheat the pan with the oven for better crust.

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#39

Post by Dowwie »

dharma1 wrote: post #29

I got one of these wood/pellet/gas fired Uuni ovens and can highly recommend it for pizza aficionados. Reasonably priced too https://uuni.net/ I use wood kindling or pellets for the fire - it gets hot enough in 10 mins. For the dough I use 00 (fine) flour, and depending on time I might prove the dough for 3-4 nights in the fridge. Possibly the best cooking tool I've bought.

You've really got to be committed to making pizza after you get one of those! Do you make pies as gifts?

Re: The physics of baking good pizza

#40

Post by mohaine »

bobbybroadcast wrote: post #33
makmanalp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a pizza steel which I've wanted to try forever: https://slice.seriouseats.com/2012/09/the-pizza-lab-the-baki... ... not a perfect neapolitan but looks good enough for me.

My wife and I just made 4 pizzas on this last night. It is great but the edges around the pizza were golden brown and not that bubbly crispy crust you get in pizzerias. I am convinced now more than ever that the dough is the critical procedural element we were getting wrong. She used a 1 hour dough where even the pizza steel recommends a 72 hour one. Needless to say, she has one in the proofer for Wednesday night.

I highly suggest this recipe (From here: http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm)

  Ingredient (grams)        1 Pie  3 Pied  5 Pies	
  Filtered Water	    110	   330	   550	
  King Arthur Bread flour   168	   510	   850	
  Kosher or Sea Salt        6	   18	   30	
  Sourdough yeast culture   15	   45	   60	
  Instant Dry yeast 	    0.5	   1.5	   2.5	


  All ingredients into mixer except 25% of flour.
  Mix on lowest speed for 1-2 minutes or until completely blended.
  Cover and Let it rest for 20 minutes.
  Start Mixing on Low speed for 8 minutes. 5 minutes into it start adding held back flour gradually.
  Mix for 1 more minute

  Divide in to 300g balls and either let raise warm (3-10 hours) or cold (2-7 days).
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