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Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

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Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#91

Post by DanBC »

Chathamization wrote: post #58
abhiminator wrote: post #5

I'm totally on-board with opposition to the pointless 'War on Drugs,' but what I'm not cool with is when pundits and other public figures on the other side of the spectrum PUSH for its wide-adoption and integration into everyday lifestyle akin to alcohol -- like the article's author is doing here -- which I feel is equally detrimental because there have been many well documented cases of people succumbing to the spel…

> what I'm not cool with is when pundits and other public figures on the other side of the spectrum PUSH for its wide-adoption and integration into everyday lifestyle akin to alcohol While I agree that people should be cautious about taking any mind altering drug, from what I've seen alcohol seems to be even more dangerous (compare your first link with the information here[1] and here[2]). The big difference is that…

> The big difference is that there is immense societal pressure to consume alcohol all the time (and this pressure occurs everywhere

Yes, that's the point. I want drugs to be legalised because I recognise the harm that is caused by keeping them illegal. But our society's complete failure to promote the public health message around alcohol[1] means that I'm reluctant to push the legalise message.

[1] you only get one type of health benefit if you're an older woman drinking small amounts; for everyone else there's either no benefit or increasing levels of harm

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#92

Post by stephenSinniah »

I've only got anecdotal evidence but my hunch is that frequent long term use of psychedelic substances will have a negative affect on you. One of my favourite quotes on psychedelic usage is "Once you get the message, hang up." It's a great experience especially when you have roadblocks in life, but I think once you reach the state of realisation necessary you should take a step back.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#93

Post by mc32 »

abhiminator wrote: post #5

I'm totally on-board with opposition to the pointless 'War on Drugs,' but what I'm not cool with is when pundits and other public figures on the other side of the spectrum PUSH for its wide-adoption and integration into everyday lifestyle akin to alcohol -- like the article's author is doing here -- which I feel is equally detrimental because there have been many well documented cases of people succumbing to the spel…

Not only that but very often we have people with little more than cursory knowledge in something trying to sway people one way or the other.

I'd like to see arguments from both sides from people with deep knowledge in the subject rather than people who happen to have a voice.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#94

Post by eternauta3k »

anonytrary wrote: post #14

I've noticed that weed from legal shops is dressed up and made to look great. More than half the time, I'm disappointed. Sometimes it'll be rock hard or it will look great and taste like garbage. I really miss the black-market stuff I used to get in college. Back then, if it looked good, it was good and if it looked like crap, it was crap. No gimmicks. I still remember when I could touch and sniff weed before I bough…

Looks like you want more of a greengrocer type of store rather than a pharmacy.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#95

Post by RangerScience »

dghughes wrote: post #79
throwaway98371 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a really conservative, deeply religious (Protestant Christian) family. My parents loved me and did their best to raise me according to their beliefs, but their beliefs were both absurdly strict and also ridiculously unsupportable by the scientific evidence that, as a book- and science-obsessed teenager, I was absorbing at a rapid pace. Given that I was quickly disbelieving everything I had been raised to…

Isn't that just as bad? People who only believe what the Bible says is right versus people taking a drug and accepting its effects as the real truth. Both sides should know themselves without external devices forcing a certain "truth" on them.

You are wildly uninformed about these experiences.

There's no "truth" that they show you. You just... have an experience. And then you think about it. And then maybe it changes you, maybe it doesn't.

Just like any other day, only turned up to 11, dose-dependent.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#96

Post by pmoriarty »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #69

I've taken my fair share of drugs of all sorts, and maybe I'm just a grumpy bastard, but I've never felt like the author describes. I've never seen God or the afterlife. I've always been fully aware than even deep into a trip or a roll or in the depths of a k hole, it's just the drugs that are making me weird. I'm all for taking recreational drugs to have fun and I'm all for "recreational drugs" used in a clinical se…

"I've taken my fair share of drugs of all sorts, and maybe I'm just a grumpy bastard, but I've never felt like the author describes. I've never seen God or the afterlife. I've always been fully aware than even deep into a trip or a roll or in the depths of a k hole, it's just the drugs that are making me weird."

Honestly, people are different and they react differently to drugs.

I knew someone who did a lot of LSD, but he never had a single visual hallucination, while such hallucinations are incredibly common for just about everyone else who takes the drug.

Also, I think set and setting and probably intelligence and life experience as well really affect what you get out of psychedelics.

A die-hard materialist taking them in a clinical setting, expecting his experience to be "just noise in the brain" might be more likely to get something more superficial than someone who is deeply religious, who takes the psychedelic in a church or temple and who expects a spiritual communion with his or her deity.

But, of course, you never know, and either of them might get the surprise of their lives. The other day I was listening to Erik Davis interview a researcher who'd administered psychedelics to thousands of subjects, and said that the people who have the hardest time with them are die-hard fundamentalists and die-hard materialists -- people who have something to prove.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#98

Post by [deleted] »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #77
V-2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the famous Leary vs. Lettvin debate (1967): https://youtu.be/Gq3Fp-xp0l0 For the brochure version: http://www.swt.org/oshare/Lettvin-Leary/Lettvin-Leary-LSD-De... Leary's sitting in the lotus position was always a red flag to me ;) I don't advocate a prohibition at all, but I think there's something wrong with attempting to conceive some sort of an ideology to back up the drug use. Lettvin's point…

Speaking of Leary, this quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas [1] basically sums up my opinion and sentiment above: > All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours, too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped to create... > ...a generation of permanent crippl…

[deleted]

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#99

Post by KozmoNau7 »

dqv wrote: post #65
jdietrich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a rather worrying trend of psychedelics being "sold" as a safe panacea. If you believe the cheerleaders, psychedelics are powerful enough to rapidly cure mental illness and facilitate profoundly positive personality changes, but have only trivial side-effects. That doesn't seem particularly plausible to me - there aren't many medicines that are both very potent and very safe. The stereotype of the burned-out…

> HPPD is almost certainly a real disorder. I just looked that up and have assumed it was normal for most of my life. Sometime around when I was 3-5 years old, I was laying in bed, looking up up at the wall and noticed this visual noise. I wondered about it and resolved that "that's just how it is." I would also close my eyes and let that fuzz "set in" and see beautiful fire works and replay music in my head. Maybe j…

"> HPPD is almost certainly a real disorder.

I just looked that up and have assumed it was normal for most of my life."

I've always had visual snow and similar symptions as described for HDDP, color patterns and flashing/movement, visible on any flat-colored surface and especially with closed eyes (similar to what Prisoner's Cinema is described as being). I have never taken any drugs in my life, other than alcohol.

Honestly, I've always just thought it was a normal part of the visual processing that happens in the brain.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#100

Post by KozmoNau7 »

pmoriarty wrote: post #87
dqv wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HPPD is almost certainly a real disorder. I just looked that up and have assumed it was normal for most of my life. Sometime around when I was 3-5 years old, I was laying in bed, looking up up at the wall and noticed this visual noise. I wondered about it and resolved that "that's just how it is." I would also close my eyes and let that fuzz "set in" and see beautiful fire works and replay music in my head. Maybe j…

I am no neurologist, but what you're describing sounds more like Prisoner's cinema[1] or some sort of entoptic phenomenon[2] rather than HPPD. HPPD happens with the eyes open, in the light, and is usually more pronounced than something like a floater[3] (which can also be seen in the lights, with the eyes open). [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_cinema [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entoptic_pheno…

I don't know about the other poster, but while I do experience all of those, I also have visual noise, color flashing and movement, even with my eyes open in bright conditions.

The best description is that I basically don't see flat even colors anywhere. There is always some amount of colorful noise. It's not that bad, and I can mostly tune it out. But it is always there.

I know phosphenes are normal, visual stuff that happens when you close your eyes. I have them all the time.

I don't know if it's related, but I regularly get migraines that are usually not painful, just uncomfortable and accompanied by strong auras.

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