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The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#21

Post by dullgiulio »

wodenokoto wrote: post #12
hrktb wrote: post #4

> That was the “introduction in the Suruwaha’s symbolic universe of a possible resolution to a problem, in their lives, by means other than those under their control by traditional practices.” There is the general point about how indegenous tribes are handled. As I understand from the article, they are set as communities that are independant from national and international laws, can keep their traditions and set thei…

It's very easy to reconcile the child/adult treatment: If they wish to continue to follow traditional rules that lie outside what modern society accepts, they cannot be part of modern society. If they want to trade, share ideas and generally meet with the rest of the world, they must reconcile their traditions with things like human rights. You might argue that China is not following human rights and they are a major…

The other big question is the role of the individual in these societies.

If we are not relativistic about ethics we might think that being born in a society doesn't have to determine the way you live forever. This is a big can of worms.

The simpler solution we know of is the Paradox of Tolerance, and regarding tolerance itself as more important than, for example, preserving tradition.

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#22

Post by [deleted] »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #16
dade_ wrote: post #13

Nevermind.

I disagree. Rather than have the Brazilian government use coercion and 'haul them out' it is better to let those within that community know there is a way out and offer help to those who want to get out. It's clear many within that community don't agree with this already (like the parents who committed suicide rather than kill their children) and if they could know they could escape that would preferable than forcing…

[deleted]

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#23

Post by minipci1321 »

tomohawk wrote: post #20
cdoxsey wrote: post #17

The West does this with down syndrome. In the UK apparently 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated. (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-wouldve-aborted-a-... for example)

It's easier to judge small tribes as being backwards than to look at ourselves and see the backwardness, and that we're really not any different.

Just how on Earth have you inferred this statement from the OP or from the parent's comment? Have you read either?

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#24

Post by aaron695 »

> protected tribes

They are human zoo's.

People often ask what future people will feel disgust about present day society, this is one of them.

Tribal behaviour is the worst of the worst. It is horrific.... but interesting, so we keep them isolated. They are animals in zoo's. It's not just Brazil, India and some other places do it as well.

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#25

Post by AlexAltea »

cdoxsey wrote: post #17

The West does this with down syndrome. In the UK apparently 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated. (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-wouldve-aborted-a-... for example)

Killing a child, or any conscious being willing to live, cannot be compared to terminating a pregnancy at a point where the embryo is just a blob of cells with no global survival instinct and consciousness whatsoever (just basic biochemistry-powered defensive reactions at cellular level).

It's ridiculous making such mental gymnastics to stretch this article in order to blame "the West".

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#27

Post by sjg007 »

zbentley wrote: post #15

There are important questions about the nature of social progress here. The situation in Brazil is not all that different, ethical-relativity-wise, than the situation between, say, Iran and Finland. Iranian law requires capital punishment for many behaviors which Finland (which has outlawed the death penalty altogether) would not consider illegal or forbidden in any way. There is a big difference in degree between th…

There is the idea of universal human rights that persists outside of the nation state. Trade is a major lever and failing that war. This is why NK wants nukes because then we can’t invade on concern over human rights. But yes there is a more ethical and moral path and some nations are more ethical/moral than others. Some argue that we have a duty to interfere and others follow the Star Trek prime directive as the guiding principal. A compromise in Brazil would be for the tribes to give the children up for adoption or to the State.

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#28

Post by mmagin »

cdoxsey wrote: post #17

The West does this with down syndrome. In the UK apparently 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated. (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-wouldve-aborted-a-... for example)

At least be honest that you are implicitly stating an opinion that abortion at 9-15 weeks is equivalent to infanticide.

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#29

Post by imbokodo »

Brazil was under a military dictatorship until 1985 where those wanting democracy were imprisoned, tortured and killed. Over the past four years we have seen what started as a minor investigation into corruption turn into a judicial coup, overturning governments the people are voting for - the judges ousted Lula, then their process led to the ousting of Rousseff, who herself was tortured during the dictatorship. You also now have major voices hinting or calling for a return to dictatorship.

You also have well-funded extrajudicial efforts by mining interests massacring Indians, organizers, rural workers or anyone who gets in the way of mining interests. Many uncontacted Indians are being killed, yes - by well-funded mining interests.

In the midst of this, we hear nonsense about the legal system which just overturned Brazilian democracy and which won't provide adequate funding for protecting Indians from mining company slaughter, wading into the Amazon to, in its benevolence, sort out what are probably seen as mercy killings of children who can't survive in that environment and will be leading a life of suffering. Often due to the circumstances caused by the mining companies trying to kill them. It's the height of hubris and hypocrisy that Foreign Policy, which itself has justified more bloodshed than any magazine, sees fit to try to bestow this mantle into itself.

Re: The controversy over child killing among Amazon tribes in Brazil

#30

Post by gkya »

This is human zoo. We see that culture, and our approach to certain instances of it is inherently oppressive. We had cultures similar to that of the indigenous peoples' back in the old world until relatively recently. But because we have a certain fascination with these exotic "species" of people, we negate them the modern life, way better than theirs in every objective measure. We entitle ourselves to the "preservation" of their cultures, which means a) we believe that we are enough better off than them that we can assume that role and b) needing protection means that their culture is insustainable and bound to extinguish already. It's cruel to think that we should allow these people to suffer because it's an interesting spectacle for the scientists, while we enjoy increasingly free and individualist societies.

We do the same with languages: we try to preserve languages that only a handful people speak because it's interesting to us that those few hundred speak a dying language, while we enjoy using languages that allow us to communicate to millions, if not billions of other people.

Culture is a nice thing to remember, but just like we mostly dumped it for the modern life for the latter is objectively better, we should allow these people to do the same too. Otherwise, it is human zoo.

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