Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#21

Post by headsoup » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:33 AM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8

abhiminator wrote: post #5

I'm totally on-board with opposition to the pointless 'War on Drugs,' but what I'm not cool with is when pundits and other public figures on the other side of the spectrum PUSH for its wide-adoption and integration into everyday lifestyle akin to alcohol -- like the article's author is doing here -- which I feel is equally detrimental because there have been many well documented cases of people succumbing to the spel…

Completely agree - in fact I am starting to look at fats and sugar as drugs at least as harmful long term as some "real" drugs. When you look at coca cola adverts and big supermarkets as pushers, things start to become much clearer and the scale of the struggle on obesity really is startling. So yes, I am in favour of democratic nanny states.

You don't need a nanny state as a solution. In fact that's bad as it leaves people to believe they don't need to critically think about things because 'nanny' has them covered.

They need better regulation, education (not the systemic industrial kind currently provided) and discussion. Marketplace of ideas and all that.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#22

Post by dzhiurgis » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:36 AM UTC

notahacker wrote: post #7

JackCh wrote: post #3

Weed was cool until The Man started wanting me to smoke it.

Isn't think pretty much what happened in the Netherlands?

Kinda (I'm not a local) - the shops are quiet dodgy, usually attracting lower status people. Only sells weed or hash or pre-rolled joints with tobacco.

Compare it with US - some shops in SF look like fancy hotel lobbies, sales people incredibly knowledgeable, lots of options (candy, vapes, shatter, wax, oils, etc). Can't smoke there tho.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#23

Post by headsoup » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:38 AM UTC

Drugs should not be criminalised. They should be regulated.

There's no fundamental reason that drugs are any worse than alcohol except social stigma and manipulation.

A most bizarre example imo is Portugal. It is a fine-able offense to carry drugs (up to 10 days), but not criminal. Yet it is criminal to produce or distribute drugs. How does that work if consumption of the end product is not criminal.

It's like it must be illegal on principle because drug cartels (or whatever), but we understand the end effect is not something criminal. Weird..

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#24

Post by merinowool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:51 AM UTC

throwbacktictac wrote: post #15

abhiminator wrote: post #5

I'm totally on-board with opposition to the pointless 'War on Drugs,' but what I'm not cool with is when pundits and other public figures on the other side of the spectrum PUSH for its wide-adoption and integration into everyday lifestyle akin to alcohol -- like the article's author is doing here -- which I feel is equally detrimental because there have been many well documented cases of people succumbing to the spel…

Absolutely! I can identify with the author of the Vice article. I worry that the liberalization of drugs will lead people that are "wired" differently to experiment and screw up their mental and cognitive skills. Weed definitely changed me.

Is change only a bad thing?

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#25

Post by SECProto » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:53 AM UTC

HighlandSpring wrote: post #11

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree - in fact I am starting to look at fats and sugar as drugs at least as harmful long term as some "real" drugs. When you look at coca cola adverts and big supermarkets as pushers, things start to become much clearer and the scale of the struggle on obesity really is startling. So yes, I am in favour of democratic nanny states.

Sugar, absolutely. Which fats do you have in mind?

Sugar and fats are both compounds present in nature, and evolution hardwired us to search them out as high calorie sources. Modern food processing has drastically lowered the cost/increased availability of those substances, allowing individuals and companies to increase the amount included in prepared/processed food. Oils are necessary to life and sugars aren't, is the only difference really. Eat food, mostly plants, not too much.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#26

Post by merinowool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:54 AM UTC

headsoup wrote: post #23

Drugs should not be criminalised. They should be regulated. There's no fundamental reason that drugs are any worse than alcohol except social stigma and manipulation. A most bizarre example imo is Portugal. It is a fine-able offense to carry drugs (up to 10 days), but not criminal. Yet it is criminal to produce or distribute drugs. How does that work if consumption of the end product is not criminal. It's like it mus…

Portugal model is setup for illegal drug trade to flourish. I am worried that they might be sleepwalking into situation like there is in Mexico. Cartels getting richer and spreading through different economy sectors like a cancer.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#27

Post by merinowool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

tranchms wrote: post #13

“LSD comes from bacteria.” This is wrong. LSD is synthesized from ergot, a fungus that grows on rye. An oversight like this throws the authors entire credibility into question. Know your subject matter.

I wonder if all media participate in such disinformation on purpose...

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#28

Post by merinowool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:58 AM UTC

dvcrn wrote: post #6

the crazy war on drugs and stigma is something I never really understood. Why do I when I take for example mdma, a drug that just makes me feel happy and loved, become a criminal and can go to prison? This just seems so weird. And then we have alcohol and cigarettes which are even more damaging to your body than a lot of things, and it’s completely fine. I’d say it should be up choice. If you want to take substance x…

I hope one day those who push war on drugs are recognised for the damage they have caused and all the deception that is going on will be exposed and heads will roll.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#29

Post by merinowool » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #22

notahacker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't think pretty much what happened in the Netherlands?

Kinda (I'm not a local) - the shops are quiet dodgy, usually attracting lower status people. Only sells weed or hash or pre-rolled joints with tobacco. Compare it with US - some shops in SF look like fancy hotel lobbies, sales people incredibly knowledgeable, lots of options (candy, vapes, shatter, wax, oils, etc). Can't smoke there tho.

It is illegal in Netherlands and sales or possession is only "tolerated". Shop still have to source they assortment from illegal sources.

Re: Why We Should Say Yes to Drugs

#30

Post by benbreen » Sun, Jul 01, 2018, 11:07 AM UTC

merinowool wrote: post #26

headsoup wrote: post #23

Drugs should not be criminalised. They should be regulated. There's no fundamental reason that drugs are any worse than alcohol except social stigma and manipulation. A most bizarre example imo is Portugal. It is a fine-able offense to carry drugs (up to 10 days), but not criminal. Yet it is criminal to produce or distribute drugs. How does that work if consumption of the end product is not criminal. It's like it mus…

Portugal model is setup for illegal drug trade to flourish. I am worried that they might be sleepwalking into situation like there is in Mexico. Cartels getting richer and spreading through different economy sectors like a cancer.

Writing this from Lisbon. Is there any evidence that Portugal's policy has had a negative effect? Based on the New Yorker article about the issue a few years ago, I was under the impression that drug decriminalization in Portugal has been quite successful.