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The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

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Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#131

Post by oldcynic »

djrogers wrote: post #85
curun1r wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then if we could pass a law mandating that prices be displayed inclusive of sales tax, that'd be great. One of my favorite parts about going to Europe is being able to add up prices in my head and have it match up exactly with the final total. The US system is nonsensical and shouldn't be used to justify other nonsensical policies like the continued use of the penny.

The problem with all prices being shown inclusive of tax is that the amount of the tax becomes forgotten over time. By having tax added and called out on the receipt at the register, everyone is reminded many times per day how much sales tax they're paying.

No, it really doesn't get forgotten.

Every receipt breaks out the VAT and rate. Food, books and children's clothes (and a few other things) are exempt (UK).

All online purchases show VAT in the checkout and basket, and in the invoice after purchase.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#133

Post by dexterdog »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #96
nostromo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most purchases are not made with cash and fewer people are using cash every year. You're basically saying that all consumers should pay more with every purchase so that the mint can make https://www.frbsf.org/cash/files/figure-3-2015dcpc-share-of-...

Canada has already phased out the penny. Electronic transactions are not rounded. Cash transactions are rounded to the nearest nickel. It hasn't been a problem. As a customer you can 'abuse' this by paying with card when the price would be rounded-up, and cash when it is rounded down. But it's not really worth the effort.

Not worth the effort? You underestimate my cheapness at your own peril.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#134

Post by shagmin »

will_brown wrote: post #25
nostromo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most purchases are not made with cash and fewer people are using cash every year. You're basically saying that all consumers should pay more with every purchase so that the mint can make https://www.frbsf.org/cash/files/figure-3-2015dcpc-share-of-...

It’s actually the people who use credit/debit cards to make purchases who raise the prices on all goods/services for people who pay cash. The average merchant pays 2.3-3.5% per swipe, as a result prices are increased across the board and passed on to consumers, no matter if they pay with card or cash.

Then again they can offset these costs by having a much larger customer base (i.e. people without cash on them) from which to help them realize greater volume discounts.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#135

Post by telchar »

linkmotif wrote: post #112

The value of pennies to the economy must be much greater than $69M right? My reasoning is: if you get rid of them, who’ll get short changed? The consumer. And by how much throughout the entire cash economy? A lot.

I think the value of pennies to the economy is negative.

Every time I have to handle a penny it wastes my time and energy for no gain. I never find having a penny useful unless it will prevent me from getting more pennies. Multiply that by everyone in the country and that is quite a waste of time (i.e. money). There would be almost no loss of economic efficiency if we get rid of pennies but a nice savings in real time and energy, to say nothing of the waste that mining, refining, stamping and distributing them costs.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#136

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ggg9990 wrote: post #66
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've moved beyond that. I discard all change, ruthlessly. If there's somebody nearby who wants them, I give them the whole handful of change. Otherwise it all goes in the trash on the way out of the store. Used to wear holes in my pants pockets, get stuck in dryer etc. Cost more than it was worth, in wear and tear, and in emotional energy to manage it. You can't imagine the freedom you feel when you discard your firs…

Jeez, at least throw it on the street to make someone’s day. Why the trash?

If the trash has a flat top, I leave it on top. Otherwise, gone. Any other behavior means, again, investing emotional energy to figure out what would be best. And my whole point is to be free.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#137

Post by tylerhou »

thebooglebooski wrote: post #39
refurb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the headline seems dumb. If the mint creates a $100 bill for $1.50, did they make $98.50? No. The purpose of the mint is to maintain the US currency. It's a cost center, not a profit center.

"Making" and "creating" are pretty ambiguous here. The mint literally creates physical money (coins). But in the end, the government actually does generate revenue, that gets calculated into a profit or loss for the country: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/seigniorage.asp $100 bills DO generate profit. Pennies generate a loss. If you look at all of the currency in aggregate, it generates positive revenue for the…

$100 bills do generate profit for the person printing them, but in aggregate they inflate the currency as a whole. This inflation, in theory, cancels out the wealth "created."

So when people print money, they aren't generating any wealth - it's just a wealth transfer from people who have paper money to the people who print it.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#138

Post by JoeAltmaier »

549362-30499 wrote: post #130
djrogers wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder where these people live where they don’t experience homeless people begging for their change daily. Most places in the country? You appear to be in somewhat of a bubble - you really should get out once in a while.

Most people in the country live in cities though, so it's not really unreasonable to be surprised that some people never encounter the extremely destitute. Maybe it is you who should leave your bubble of wealthy suburbanites?

I live near Iowa City. I encounter several folks wanting a donation every time I go downtown. A couple I know, I always put a buck or two in the can and pass a comment on the weather or whatnot.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#139

Post by jdietrich »

will_brown wrote: post #25
nostromo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Most purchases are not made with cash and fewer people are using cash every year. You're basically saying that all consumers should pay more with every purchase so that the mint can make https://www.frbsf.org/cash/files/figure-3-2015dcpc-share-of-...

It’s actually the people who use credit/debit cards to make purchases who raise the prices on all goods/services for people who pay cash. The average merchant pays 2.3-3.5% per swipe, as a result prices are increased across the board and passed on to consumers, no matter if they pay with card or cash.

Here in the UK, most banks charge business account holders about 1% when they deposit or withdraw cash. Add in the labour costs of cash handling, the risks associated with cash on the premises and (in many cases) the costs of a secure cash-in-transit service and it's potentially more expensive to take cash than cards.

Multiple studies have found that customers are more willing to spend and typically spend more per transaction when using cards rather than cash, so the merchant charge is usually a sound investment by the retailer.

Re: The US Mint lost $69M making pennies last year

#140

Post by oldcynic »

macintux wrote: post #108
djrogers wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with all prices being shown inclusive of tax is that the amount of the tax becomes forgotten over time. By having tax added and called out on the receipt at the register, everyone is reminded many times per day how much sales tax they're paying.

Additionally, sales tax is sometimes not required, either because the product or the reason for purchase is exempt. Computers can deal with the latter, signage can't.

Signage in store shows the price you pay at the till.

The till receipt or invoice breaks down the VAT element for you, and most places even pick out what is zero rated or exempt should you care.

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