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Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

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Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#111

Post by sandworm101 »

Timpy wrote: post #45

Imagine feeling completely one with nature, making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. The time comes for you to wrestle with your mortality, you've worked for 30 years to do it with dignity. You've rejected man's system, because you know it's not right for you, and in your final moments it comes for you, steals you away, and forces you back into the machine. This isn't a morally imp…

>> making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die.

Have a good think about how that death will actually go down. This isn't falling asleep in a field of flowers. Say you have a stroke. Then follows days, weeks, of confusion and fear as you rot away on the ground. Or say you fall and break a bone. That's weeks of pain as you wait for the infection to kill you. On anywhere other than an island a predator would eventually come along to quicken the inevitable.

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#112

Post by wahern »

sdenton4 wrote: post #108
ebbv wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine some mentally ill person decides he wants to be at one with nature on your property... There's two (or more) sides to everything. The people who own the island have the legal right to kick him out. I get your perspective but if he really wants to get back to nature he should find a place where he is welcome to do so. EDIT: For all the people asking about the details of the property owners asking him to leave,…

If this happened in the US, it's likely that the island would be /his/ property under adverse possession law: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/adverse-possession-t...

Adverse possession must be adverse to the original owner's title. If the owners knew he lived there and tolerated him and otherwise made use of the land, then his presence wasn't adverse. See, e.g.,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession#Hostile_pos...

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession#Exclusive_u...

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#113

Post by [deleted] »

dalore wrote: post #105
ebbv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another comment here in the article explaining the reason he was removed was at the request of the people who owned the property.

Easier to remove him while he is alive. If he died there it would create issues for the owners probably.

[deleted]

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#114

Post by opportune »

Nasrudith wrote: post #100
ravenstine wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. What Kaczynski did was terrible, but he was obviously very intelligent and highly observant. Upon reading Industrial Society and its Future, it was hard for me to deny the validity(note the difference between validity and soundness) of many of his arguments. I would say it's worth reading if the reader can mentally-divorce ideas from their thinkers, and it's a fascinating read at that.

Kaczynski's lack a sense of history or worse a romanticized version of it. People were less free in pre-industrial society and more controlled not less. Despite the depictions it is important to remember that nature does not give a damn about you and life is accordingly harsh because of it.

Depends on what you mean by pre-industrial. I think that what you say is true for most of recorded history, but perhaps not for the paleolithic era. That was probably peak human freedom, at least in my opinion

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#115

Post by Brian_K_White »

shawn wrote: post #102
djsumdog wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mentally ill Ah, and what is health ? We use this term to talk about physical health (infections, disease, cancer), mental health and also habits (eating healthy, or playing video games all day isn't healthy). This starts to get really ambiguous. You're now applying societal standards, maybe throwing a little happiness index in there ... We don't see living alone in solitude as healthy. Yet this man claims to be fi…

Health, like beauty, is averages. If you take a group of people and average them, the resulting person is very likely considered pretty and healthy. https://leadingpersonality.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/avera... https://leadingpersonality.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/average-... There are evolutionary reasons for preferring averages. And the further you deviate from average behavior, the bigger the risk you run.

So health and rightness and validity are a popularity contest? On average, a lot of people do a lot of things that I am happy to be deviant from. A lot of people eat at McDonalds and bury themselves in credit and loan debt. That overwhelming popularity does not all by itself constitute validity.

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#116

Post by anonu »

sandworm101 wrote: post #111
Timpy wrote: post #45

Imagine feeling completely one with nature, making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. The time comes for you to wrestle with your mortality, you've worked for 30 years to do it with dignity. You've rejected man's system, because you know it's not right for you, and in your final moments it comes for you, steals you away, and forces you back into the machine. This isn't a morally imp…

>> making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. Have a good think about how that death will actually go down. This isn't falling asleep in a field of flowers. Say you have a stroke. Then follows days, weeks, of confusion and fear as you rot away on the ground. Or say you fall and break a bone. That's weeks of pain as you wait for the infection to kill you. On anywhere other than an isl…

So the alternative is you have a stroke and get rushed to a hospital. Get pumped with meds and IV lines. Then follows days, weeks or years of suffering in silence in a place you didn't want to be in the first place.

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#117

Post by jader201 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #111
Timpy wrote: post #45

Imagine feeling completely one with nature, making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. The time comes for you to wrestle with your mortality, you've worked for 30 years to do it with dignity. You've rejected man's system, because you know it's not right for you, and in your final moments it comes for you, steals you away, and forces you back into the machine. This isn't a morally imp…

>> making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. Have a good think about how that death will actually go down. This isn't falling asleep in a field of flowers. Say you have a stroke. Then follows days, weeks, of confusion and fear as you rot away on the ground. Or say you fall and break a bone. That's weeks of pain as you wait for the infection to kill you. On anywhere other than an isl…

This seems to be a controversial post (getting upvotes and downvotes). But for the downvoters, also consider that his decision to remain isolated is a current one, but not necessarily an indefinite one.

He may come down with any illness or condition that causes him to change his mind at any point, but no longer in a condition to do anything about it. There are certain conditions that modern civilization makes coping with considerably easier, and it’s plausible that he would chose that over his current surroundings, but no longer able to change his surroundings.

That’s the question that keeps coming to my mind.

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#118

Post by garmaine »

jader201 wrote: post #117
sandworm101 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. Have a good think about how that death will actually go down. This isn't falling asleep in a field of flowers. Say you have a stroke. Then follows days, weeks, of confusion and fear as you rot away on the ground. Or say you fall and break a bone. That's weeks of pain as you wait for the infection to kill you. On anywhere other than an isl…

This seems to be a controversial post (getting upvotes and downvotes). But for the downvoters, also consider that his decision to remain isolated is a current one, but not necessarily an indefinite one. He may come down with any illness or condition that causes him to change his mind at any point, but no longer in a condition to do anything about it. There are certain conditions that modern civilization makes coping…

So you, random person on the internet, are better suited at truly evaluating his wishes than himself?

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#119

Post by qpooqpoo »

ebbv wrote: post #60
Timpy wrote: post #45

Imagine feeling completely one with nature, making your position clear that this is where and how you would like to die. The time comes for you to wrestle with your mortality, you've worked for 30 years to do it with dignity. You've rejected man's system, because you know it's not right for you, and in your final moments it comes for you, steals you away, and forces you back into the machine. This isn't a morally imp…

Imagine some mentally ill person decides he wants to be at one with nature on your property... There's two (or more) sides to everything. The people who own the island have the legal right to kick him out. I get your perspective but if he really wants to get back to nature he should find a place where he is welcome to do so. EDIT: For all the people asking about the details of the property owners asking him to leave,…

"find a place where he is welcome to do so."

These places are disappearing rapidly from the map. There's very little wild country left, and at the rate economic growth is going, there probably wont be any left in several decades.

Re: Japan's 'Naked Hermit' Pried from Island Utopia After 29 Years

#120

Post by mehblahwhatevs »

opportune wrote: post #114
Nasrudith wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaczynski's lack a sense of history or worse a romanticized version of it. People were less free in pre-industrial society and more controlled not less. Despite the depictions it is important to remember that nature does not give a damn about you and life is accordingly harsh because of it.

Depends on what you mean by pre-industrial. I think that what you say is true for most of recorded history, but perhaps not for the paleolithic era. That was probably peak human freedom, at least in my opinion

> the paleolithic era. That was probably peak human freedom, at least in my opinion

A bit much no?

The paleolithic era was when you'd get killed by some beast while walking through a field, killed by an arrow from some tribe nearby, or die by the age of 30 from the simple common cold.

By "free" you mean less responsibility? You didn't have to work and worry about a roof over your head?

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